Future of democracy. Was:Re: [Paleopsych] Good vs. evil

[Christian Rauh]

Lynn,

We know we disagree on many things but we are closer here. :-)  My
message was not clear, I'm not saying there must not be a "keeper or
order" in the world. But I don't think there must be a country assuming
that responsibility on its own because the action of that country will
respond to the interests of that population. American cop actions suit
american needs. It is like Rio, where the cops only keep the law where
the rich and famous live or have business.

The world cop must exist but it must be accountable to all people it
protects. Therefore, there must be a political structure of
accountability to the people of any global armed forces. Up until now,
all attempts have been diplomatic and undemocratic, like the UN or NATO.
Also, the cop should only work on its jurisdiction.

I agree that some places have had conflicts to come to a democracy but
not ALL. That is not a historic law. Brazil is democratic and it never
had a conflict, similar with Finland that I alluded in another email. Of
course, the earlier the democracy probably the more violence you needed
because more abstract the concept was and more power the rulers had. One
thing that seems usual is the fact that the stronger democracies come
when the people are part of the democratic revolution.

But the historic argument is also flawed because it dictates that things
will always be like they were. If the historic argument always held, it
means no change. However, the world advances on change. When democracy
first appeared that had never been democracy, and people at that time
could pull the historic argument against it. I say we are at a point
today where we can more easily do democratic revolution through
non-violent means. One way of doing that is through increased
information flow. We can start in the US.

Now, to say that Iraq is a democracy, that's being too anxious. ;-)

Christian

Lynn D. Johnson, Ph.D. wrote:
> Christian, I am inspired by your hope but dubious of your grasp of human
> evil. You know very well there are sections of Rio where no one can go
> without extreme risk. There are no cops there, so the good people suffer
> at the hands of the evil. World history seems to tell me that without
> cops the worst people dominate. Thus, the world needs a cop.
>     An international "cop?" But the U.N. has failed over and over, from
> failure to prevent genocide to corruption in the oil for food scandals.
> So how can we hope for something that has never happened?
>     Democracy, we learn from history, is achieved mostly through force
> and warfare. The U. S. democratic republic arose from conflict and is
> one of the oldest in the world. England has a democracy that was born of
> armed nobility confronting a king. Germany, Japan, Iraq -- all examples
> of democracy arising from armed conflict. The Orange Revolution in
> Ukraine wouldn't have been possible without Reagan's insistance that we
> could afford a military buildup and the Soviets could not. Lebanon
> wouldn't have hope without the example of Iraq. Libya is restrained by
> force of the American cop on the corner. And, as the joke goes, Bush has
> announced how he will withdraw from Iraq: "We'll just go through Iran."
>     And why must democracy be purchased at the price of our blood?
> Psychopaths respond only to firm, quick resistance to their lawless
> behavior. Thoughout history, the psychopaths have risen to the top
> (consider the French revolution; consider the sad history of Argentina,
> my beloved tragic second home). But in the American revolution, the
> careful and the accountable became the leaders and have inspired the
> world ever since.
>     Other than that, I have no strong feelings.
> Chau, amigo
> Lynn  
> 
> Christian Rauh wrote:
> 
>>There must be a global democratic political structure with executive
>>legislative and judicial powers. That's how we'll "spread democracy".
>>People should arbitrate their problems through that system.
>>
>>This structure should be lean, representative, participatory and strong.
>>I would suggest looking at nordic countries for starting models.
>>
>>Christian
>>
>>G. Reinhart-Waller wrote:
>>  
>>
>>>Me too.
>>>
>>>Do we use the United Nations?  That hasn't worked in the past....is
>>>there a new resurrection?
>>>
>>>Gerry
>>>
>>>Christian Rauh wrote:
>>>
>>>    
>>>
>>>>No world cop.
>>>>
>>>>Christian
>>>>
>>>>G. Reinhart-Waller wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>>      
>>>>
>>>>>This is of interest.  If US is not world cop, then who would you like it
>>>>>to be?  The Russians, Chinese, one of the South American
>>>>>dictatorships....moving forward takes a country willing to gamble at
>>>>>playing the role of policeman in maintaining peace.  That is US.....not
>>>>>because it is better at it but because no one else wants the role.
>>>>>
>>>>>The only allies we have in Iraq are the Iraqi people who are interested
>>>>>in Democracy.  That's good enough for me.
>>>>>Gerry
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Steve Hovland wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>   
>>>>>
>>>>>        
>>>>>
>>>>>>When the US can no longer afford the pretense
>>>>>>of being the world cop, we may move more toward
>>>>>>group security.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>As far as help in Iraq, we have fewer and fewer
>>>>>>allies.  Most of the world is horrified by what we
>>>>>>are doing, no matter how we try to pretty it up
>>>>>>with blather about democracy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Steve Hovland
>>>>>>www.stevehovland.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     
>>>>>>
>>>>>>          
>>>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>paleopsych mailing list
>>>>>paleopsych at paleopsych.org
>>>>>http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych
>>>>>   
>>>>>
>>>>>        
>>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>>      
>>>>
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>>>
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>>>    
>>>
>>
>>  
>>
> 
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