[Paleopsych] Black-White-East Asian IQ differences

Premise Checker checker at panix.com
Sun May 8 17:50:14 UTC 2005

nicht  die-        se  Toe-  ne!
G      BbBbBbBbAA  EE  FF    FF

Greg, ad hominem arguments like these are unworthy of you. Besides, Black 
are indeed mentioned in the initial e-mail, along with Whites and East 
Asians. And you haven't addressed the question of how much money it might 
cost to do studies that meet your criteria of scientific adequacy to 
resolve these issues.

On 2005-04-28, Greg Bear opined [message unchanged below]:

> Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 17:11:41 -0700
> From: Greg Bear <ursus at earthlink.net>
> Reply-To: The new improved paleopsych list <paleopsych at paleopsych.org>
> To: 'The new improved paleopsych list' <paleopsych at paleopsych.org>
> Subject: RE: [Paleopsych] Black-White-East Asian IQ differences 
> Frank, what ARE you talking about? The initial discussion mentioned nothing
> about blacks, but seemed to be about comparisons between the IQs of Asians
> and so-called Whites--what brings out all this stuff about Uplift and
> Blacks? And quoting the Constitution! My.
> The shoe seems to fit so well, it pinches.
> Are you a white male, middle-aged or older, mathematically adept, and proud
> of your exceptional IQ? Then DO I HAVE A SCIENTIFIC SCAM FOR YOU!
> Not only does this scam claim to prove your nagging suspicions that blacks
> are inferior to whites, but it's COMPLETELY GUILT-FREE, because it's
> RATIONAL, based on PROVABLE MATHEMATICS! And better than that, it's
> supported by the nagging suspicions of PEOPLE JUST LIKE YOU! People who grew
> up in a different time.
> You don't answer any of my scientific objections. For a so-called scientific
> forum, that's rather sad.
> I do enjoy Mr. Mencken, but we were talking about the biology of racial
> Sorry about the caps. In this sort of talk-radio atmosphere, they just
> seemed appropriate.
> Greg
> -----Original Message-----
> From: paleopsych-bounces at paleopsych.org
> [mailto:paleopsych-bounces at paleopsych.org] On Behalf Of Premise Checker
> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 10:31 AM
> To: The new improved paleopsych list
> Subject: RE: [Paleopsych] Black-White-East Asian IQ differences
> Hold on a moment, Greg. What is the issue being addressed? It's why the
> trillions of dollars taken from the taxpayers and spent on uplifting
> Blacks has not been very successful and whether innate racial differences
> constitute a large part of the explanation. Let me ask you, how much do
> you think it would cost to get a good answer? (I have worked in the
> program evaluation section of the U.S. Department of Education, and this
> is one question we dare not address.) And if you don't think a good answer
> can be had at a reasonable cost, do you think that no more money should be
> spent on this uplift and either returned to the taxpayers or spent on
> something that can be reliably evaluated? I am not sure what Mr. Mencken
> called the Uplift is an appropriate function of the government. Certainly
> not for the Federal government, since it is not among the 18 powers
> granted to Congress under the Constitution, Art. 1, Sec. 8.:
> The United States Constitution: Article I, Section 8:
> Clause 1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes,
> Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common
> Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties,
> Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
> Clause 2: To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;
> Clause 3: To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the
> several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
> Clause 4: To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform
> Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
> Clause 5: To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign
> Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
> Clause 6: To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities
> and current Coin of the United States;
> Clause 7: To establish Post Offices and post Roads;
> Clause 8: To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by
> securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right
> to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
> Clause 9: To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
> Clause 10: To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the
> high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;
> Clause 11: To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and
> make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
> Clause 12: To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to
> that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
> Clause 13: To provide and maintain a Navy;
> Clause 14: To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land
> and naval Forces;
> Clause 15: To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws
> of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
> Clause 16: To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the
> Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the
> Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the
> Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia
> according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
> Clause 17: To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever,
> over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, byCession of
> particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of
> the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over
> all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in
> which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals,
> dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--And
> Clause 18: To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for
> carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers
> vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or
> in any Department or Officer thereof.
> Perhaps you think the Constitution should be amended or ignored. The
> amazing thing is that http://www.ed.gov contains a statement that its
> activities are unauthorized!
> Frank
> On 2005-04-27, Greg Bear opined [message unchanged below]:
>> Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 14:27:28 -0700
>> From: Greg Bear <ursus at earthlink.net>
>> Reply-To: The new improved paleopsych list <paleopsych at paleopsych.org>
>> To: 'The new improved paleopsych list' <paleopsych at paleopsych.org>
>> Subject: RE: [Paleopsych] Black-White-East Asian IQ differences
>> Must intrude here. This sort of nonsense is so unscientific as to be
>> laughable.
>> Major undefined terms: IQ (what is it really measuring?)
>> Intelligence: In what environment does your IQ give you an advantage?
>> Nature, society, Mad Max country?
>> "Genetic"--where is the gene for intelligence, or the set of genes? Do
> these
>> genes differ between the races? We do not know.
>> This general belief system, expressed with the utmost arrogance in THE
>> CURVE,  is generally held by a class of mathematically adept middle-aged
> and
>> older white males with pretensions to an understanding of some of the
> major
>> biological issues of our time. Their ignorance of genetics is profound.
> Most
>> of their language and conceptual structure refers to outmoded genetics of
>> forty to fifty years ago--and they've never heard of epigenetics, the
> study
>> of how genes are switched on and off, activated and deactivated.
> Indeed--not
>> only do we now know that "defective" genes can be corrected in
> non-Mendelian
>> ways, having little to do with one's parentage, but even "perfect" genes
> can
>> be switched off in certain environments, after development and birth.
>> Population groups put under pressure--through war, prejudicial treatment,
>> incarceration, or outright persecution--are likely to witness major
>> differences in the EXPRESSION of certain (possibly) genetic traits, which
>> could statistically help them adapt to a dangerous and stressful
>> environment. These adaptations may result in a skewing of IQ results, even
>> should such tests be culturally neutral--which they are not--by focusing
>> their nervous reaction to stimuli and deemphasizing their ability to focus
>> on tasks of less immediate importance--that is, a written test. Fight or
>> write, so to speak.
>> We cannot test the Irish in 1840's Ireland or New York, or the Hungarians
>> pressed over centuries by various contending hordes, or poor white trash
> in
>> the American South before the Civil War. Supposedly honorable white men in
>> their day referred to these populations as "low" and cretinous, and
> believed
>> that intermarriage would not be advantageous.
>> IQ matters most among equal populations in a fair and civilized society,
> all
>> things being equal socially; any other circumstance is skewed to those
>> raised with various spoons of precious metals and family tradition firmly
>> thrust into their mouths. 'Twas ever thus.
>> So my questions of these researchers would be: "Which fifty percent of the
>> genome would you blame? The right half, or the left? The one in the
> middle?
>> Which genes are you pointing to? Are you speaking of generalities, or
>> specifics? If the latter, what specifically are you trying to say?
>> "And why does this sound so much like the same sort of ignorant,
> prejudicial
>> crap promulgated throughout the ages by people of influence, to maintain
>> their status through any means possible, fair or unfair?"
>> White mathematically educated males of tested high IQ, trying to prove
> that
>> IQ is inbred and important... hm. Sounds like a class in search of
>> justification to me.
>> I'd challenge these folks to a duel on the public commons any day of the
>> week. Easy money. Facts and native charm versus their almighty IQs.
>> Greg Bear
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: paleopsych-bounces at paleopsych.org
>> [mailto:paleopsych-bounces at paleopsych.org] On Behalf Of Michael
> Christopher
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 1:48 PM
>> To: paleopsych at paleopsych.org
>> Subject: [Paleopsych] Black-White-East Asian IQ differences
>>>> Black-White-East Asian IQ differences at least
>> 50% genetic, major law review journal concludes<<
>> --If this is true, how should society change to deal
>> with it? Also, what is the IQ difference for someone
>> with a male or female parent of a different race, or
>> for various blends?
>> Michael
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