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Self actualization is a theory that has not stood the test of time, and
psychologists today do not use it. There are abundant examples of
people at a survival level showing self-sacrifice, C.f., <i>Bouncing
Back</i>, by Geoff Norman. It is out of print but in libararies. <br>
Your idea that people are thrown off welfare is a straw man, not
what really happens. What is the truth is that current welfare systems
(depending, I suppose on which state) run out after a period of time,
and everyone knows when that is coming.<br>
I voluntarily help a family that will always depend on some kind
of welfare, but the community here supports them and helps the husband
find sheltered workshop employment and supplements his income. The wife
works also, again in a sheltered workshop situation. They are happier
and more fulfilled by not depending on a dole but feeling that they are
earning their way. So my point remains. We are built so as to feel more
joy when we contribute to others. Another c.f.: <i>Authentic Happiness</i>
by Seligman. See his discussion of increasing joy by increasing your
helpfulness to others.<br>
lj<br>
<br>
Steve Hovland wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid01C4D56C.1ADA60C0.shovland@mindspring.com">
<pre wrap="">And the other thing your story does is
to refer to the Self Actualization level
rather than the Survival Level.
You have to survive before you can
actualize. Throwing people off welfare
and into a world where there are no
good jobs brings them to the brink
of starvation, not actualization.
Steve Hovland
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.stevehovland.net">www.stevehovland.net</a>
-----Original Message-----
From: Lynn D. Johnson, Ph.D. [<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:SMTP:ljohnson@solution-consulting.com">SMTP:ljohnson@solution-consulting.com</a>]
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 4:19 PM
To: The new improved paleopsych list
Subject: Re: [Paleopsych] welfare
I teach an MBA course on Problem Solving, and use Joe Versus the
Volcano to illustrate various problems and their analysis. In the scene
"This is a real scene" where Tom Hanks/Joe and Meg Ryan/Angelica are
looking out over Los Angeles, Angelica talks of suicide. Joe says that
if we do what we are most afraid of doing, our lives work.
Angelica: You mean, stop taking my father's money and leave LA?
Joe: See! You know what it is you really want to do.
Angelica's response to Joe illustrates the dilemma of unearned income.
Later in the movie, Meg Ryan as Patricia learns that Joe turned down
unearned intimacies with her sister, Angelica, and she knows something
about Joe from that.
But you didn't deal with my point about my own experience in working
with those receivintg welfare, and the degrading effects it has. Like
Angelica, they thought they had no other choice, until the
Clinton-Republican alliance welfare reform of 1994 or 6, and they had to
go to work. Unlike your example of people working in degrading
conditions, they felt trapped because they were afraid of giving up the
dole. People say "Take this job and shove it" all the time, because they
see themselves as free. They can work elsewhere. The dole creates an
illusion of a lack of freedom. It is unearned, and one must placate the
welfare gods. One's energies are centered around keeping the dole going
instead of achieving something, as Joe Banks tells Angelica Graynamore.
This clearly is a personal position, one I confess comes from my
culture, but one that seems to have borne positive fruit (more people
are working post welfare reform). I believe in reducing welfare and
creating workfare programs because I believe people are more fully alive
and vital when they are producing something valuable to the group.
Howard has spoken to this point many times, the delirious joy of the
crowd responding to what you do, whether it is to sing or invent a
pocket fisherman. Then we are most alive, most energized.
Lynn
Michael Christopher wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">But I still believe welfare does allow a greater
degree of freedom than being forced into a work
program in which there is little choice of the type of
job or employer. Being forced to work most of the day
for someone who doesn't treat you well is not freedom.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
But you are free to leave any moment, and many do.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Having a safety net that allows you to structure your
own time (or at least pick from a broad range of
training and employment options) does give a greater
degree of freedom.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
--That sounds like an ideological position, and let's
Yes, you are correct, it is ideological, based on cultural mores.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">assume for a moment that it's true (perhaps it's true
for some and not others?) Are there ways of having
people earn their safety net income, without depriving
them of choice and dignity? I've met many people who
had gotten used to working for employers who were
bullies, and it seemed pretty degrading to them. They
were on drugs, unable to plan ahead, etc. So I could
make the same argument about a system which has a
permanent low-wage class, that you make about the
welfare system.
I think it's reasonable to give people options to earn
an income. I just worry that forcing people into a job
market ignores the psychological impact of such an
experiment, just as you worry about the psychological
impact of welfare. We have to be humble enough to
recognize that it's ALL an experiment, and we're
playing with the lives of human beings when we
abruptly change the system.
Michael
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