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I found this:<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.cafes.net/ditch/motm1.htm">http://www.cafes.net/ditch/motm1.htm</a><br>
<br>
I am doubtful about the veracity of the book, based on that essay. It
sounds like the author, Pauwels, was a provocative and speculative
writer, not an historian. <br>
<br>
I did find this:<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.sumeria.net/politics/nazioccult.html">http://www.sumeria.net/politics/nazioccult.html</a><br>
<br>
and I recall that Hitler did have great fascination with the occult.
That article supports that. I am not certain what role occultism
played, in spite of that website. There is ambiguous evidence, even on
that site. (Nice emphasis on how 'science' causes wars . . . eugenics!)
I haven't read <i>Rise and Fall of the Third Reich</i> since I was in
8th grade, and so I don't remember what Shirer says about that. Anyone
else want to elucidate? <br>
Lynn<br>
<br>
PS: both sites seem to be characterized by special pleading, and that
is generally a bad sign.<br>
<br>
Steve Hovland wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid01C51A8E.36152200.shovland@mindspring.com">
<pre wrap="">If you can find it, an old book called "The Morning of the Magicians"
had quite a lot about Nazi occultism- the Thule stuff, expeditions
to Tibet. Just before he was executed one SS man muttered
some kind of strange prayer and went to his death placidly.
Steve Hovland
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.stevehovland.net">www.stevehovland.net</a>
-----Original Message-----
From: Lynn D. Johnson, Ph.D. [<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:SMTP:ljohnson@solution-consulting.com">SMTP:ljohnson@solution-consulting.com</a>]
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 9:40 PM
To: The new improved paleopsych list
Subject: Re: [Paleopsych] Re: paleopsych Digest, Vol 9, Issue 20
Yes, it is clear that Nazism tried to undermine legitimate religions and
was positively hostile toward religious figures. Recall the famous quote
by Niemoeller, and observe that it was often religiously committed
people who opposed Nazism (Niemoeller was far too rough on himself; he
was an early opponent of Nazism, as were many other pastors.)
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.christianethicstoday.com/Issue/009/First%20They%20Came%20for%20the%20Jews%20By%20Franklin%20H%20Littell_009_29_.htm">http://www.christianethicstoday.com/Issue/009/First%20They%20Came%20for%20the%20Jews%20By%20Franklin%20H%20Littell_009_29_.htm</a>
The cult was, IMHO, a maneuver to reduce religiousity, to replace
Christianity with something that could be induced to support
irreligiousity. Have you read The Hiding Place by Corrie Ten Boom? She
points out that there was a terrible erosion of religious devotion in
Germany in the late 1920s. Her brother, studying in Germany, wrote
extensively to her about it. The dialog she reports between herself and
the Nazi lieutenent is breathtaking. One cannot be truely educated about
the 20th Century without digesting that book.
BTW, the story behind the family that hid the piano player (that movie)
was that they were committed Catholics who saved him from the Nazis at
the risk of their own lives. The movie hid that vital bit of data. Thank
you, anti-religious fanatics of Hollywood.
Finally, a young Mormon lad named Huebner was beheaded by the gestapo
for publishing anti-nazi tracts (he secretly used the church duplicating
machine - remember those old things you hand cranked with a special
carbon-like master?). Religiousity played an oppositional role in Nazi
Germany, and the loss of religiousity caused people to lose their
bearings. Corrie Ten Boom and her sister clearly did not lose theirs;
Huebner did not lose his, and Martin Niemoeller certainly did not lose his.
Lynn
Steve Hovland wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Lynn, are you familiar with the cult aspects
of Naziism?
Steve Hovland
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.stevehovland.net">www.stevehovland.net</a>
-----Original Message-----
From: Lynn D. Johnson, Ph.D. [<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:SMTP:ljohnson@solution-consulting.com">SMTP:ljohnson@solution-consulting.com</a>]
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 7:51 AM
To: Alice Andrews; The new improved paleopsych list
Subject: Re: [Paleopsych] Re: paleopsych Digest, Vol 9, Issue 20
Marty Seligman (learned helplessness theorist, Learned Optimism,
Authentic Happiness, former APA president) - an atheist - mentions that
as a key to true happiness. He reviews literature that religious people
are generally happier and more fulfilled, more resilient. Czentmyhali
(spelling!) at U Chicago finds that kids involved in something greater
than themselves are much more likely to experience "flow" and periods of
greater happiness. Religion is clearly an adaptive force. BTW, I don't
want to hear arguments that religion is behind most wars. That is a
pretty tired argument that was thoroughly debunked by the 20th Century.
Lynn
Alice Andrews wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Hi Gerry,
Thanks for the note...
There was an interesting article somewhere--maybe Frank sent it
in?--about teenagers and the possiblity that what they were missing
was 'religion' or 'spirituality' or a 'sense of purpose and meaning
beyond them.' Do you remember reading that on paleo some time ago? I
can't find it...But it seems apropos to your missive. (If anyone knows
it and can send out again, I'd appreciate!)
Thanks and cheers,
Alice
Hi Alice,
Thanks for the rec re: Nesse's "Evolution and the Capacity for
Commitment". Although I still haven't read it I'm familiar with its
contents. The issue of 'commitment' especially for young people is
something that definitely needs addressing and maybe requiring our
youth to make a firm political commitment to a particular party will
carry over to their demonstrating less risky behavior with drugs, sex,
employment, family or whatever. Yet isn't our youth already
politically brainwashed into political awareness or have they flicked
away that duty as well? I no longer hang out with our country's young
but when I did I found that very few had their head screwed on
correctly and many were adrift; from what I hear now they still
continue on their aimless flow. When I wrote my original answer my
thoughts were on "my generation", not the others. Thanks for your post.
I'll add the book to my list.
Gerry
----- Original Message -----
From: Alice Andrews <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:andrewsa@newpaltz.edu"><mailto:andrewsa@newpaltz.edu></a>
To: The new improved paleopsych list <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:paleopsych@paleopsych.org"><mailto:paleopsych@paleopsych.org></a>
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 8:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Paleopsych] Re: paleopsych Digest, Vol 9, Issue 20
Hi Gerry,
Randy Nesse edited a book called "Evolution and the Capacity for
Commitment"; do you know it? It's wonderful... if you don't. (His
'Commitment in the Clinic' chapter is superb, btw.) Anyway, I think
the book addresses your question. The word 'commitment' itself
addresses the question. We have evolved mechanisms for detecting
commitment and for detecting possible defection in others. People who
tow the party line, etc. are considered committed. We seek out such
people because it is proximately and ultimately adaptive to do so.
Befriending, supporting, trusting, etc. the uncommitted would have
been-- and still is, a risk (or threat). Such risks could have been
very costly over our evolutionary history and can be still today. Of
course, sometimes such risks (siding with someone who seems to be
sitting on the fence, uncommitted, a rebel) can be to one's advantage.
But 'ancient-brain' doesn't know this--and probably 'statistics-brain'
doesn't know this either!
Anyway, enough late-night babbling! It's a good book and might answer
your question...
All best!
Alice
----- Original Message -----
From: G. Reinhart-Waller <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:waluk@earthlink.net"><mailto:waluk@earthlink.net></a>
To: The new improved paleopsych list
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:paleopsych@paleopsych.org"><mailto:paleopsych@paleopsych.org></a>
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Paleopsych] Re: paleopsych Digest, Vol 9, Issue 20
>> Someone beyond the liberal/conservative
dichotomy may be rejected by both sides as a nuisance,
a threat to shared assumptions that define a group
against another.
This is absolutely amazing! Why would any audience
reject someone who cannot plop into either the liberal
or conservative camp? Please explain the threat you
feel is apparent. This I need to hear!
Gerry
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