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A few comments . . .<br>
<br>
Michael Christopher wrote:<br>
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cite="mid20050224201955.55678.qmail@web30809.mail.mud.yahoo.com">
<pre wrap="">Lynn says:
</pre>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Religion is clearly an adaptive force.<<
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
--Probably true. But what makes it so? The ability to
feel certain, to override doubt, to avoid the
paralysis of indecision? The feeling of being part of
a group dedicated to a common goal? I'm sure both
would change the biochemical habits of the brains
involved. </pre>
</blockquote>
The piece about being in a group is very important, that shows up in
some studies as vital. When we meet face-to-face each week, there is
something intrinsic about that which gives a sense of belonging and
security and confidence in the future. The group is with you. <br>
<br>
Prayer and an internal spiritual life (or, meditation in Buddhism)
helps a great deal. Adherents "see answers to prayers" and there is a
positive loop established which gives one a sense of mastery of diffuse
forces, as well as a way of feeling attuned to outcomes one doesn't
like (see C.S. Lewis, <i>A Grief Observed</i>.) <br>
<br>
A religion that emphasizes peace, forgiveness, and compassion has some
vital pieces, namely raising immune markers, DHEA, lowering cortisol,
etc. There are large-scale studies on forgiveness, for example, which
demonstrate powerful pro-health benefits. <br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid20050224201955.55678.qmail@web30809.mail.mud.yahoo.com">
<pre wrap="">
I'm not sure I'd classify an isolated mystic in the
same category as a "team player" whose religion is
deeply enmeshed with group morality and conformity.</pre>
</blockquote>
The conformity piece is probably over-emphasized by people who haven't
been a sustaining part of a faith-based community. That is something
that most adherents do not experience as an issue. <br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid20050224201955.55678.qmail@web30809.mail.mud.yahoo.com">
<pre wrap="">
They may both have a religious belief, but their
behavior may be vastly different. Can patriotism be
considered a kind of religion, with a flag as its
deity and military/economic/social/religious
authorities as prophets? </pre>
</blockquote>
Likely, good point. But patriotism doesn't have the face-to-face weekly
group experience that a faith community typically does. It is more
removed, and it is less of a personal challenge. In faith communities
one strives to conform one's behavior, NOT BECAUSE OF CONFORMITY,
please, but because of an over-riding vision of what a "good life"
consists of. <br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid20050224201955.55678.qmail@web30809.mail.mud.yahoo.com">
<pre wrap="">Some have called Soviet-style
Communism a "religion". </pre>
</blockquote>
Yes, but detrimental to people, there is no question of that. No
emphasis on individual accountability, on compassion, forgiveness,
peace . . . it was / is an "evil empire" in every sense. <br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid20050224201955.55678.qmail@web30809.mail.mud.yahoo.com">
<pre wrap="">For dictionary purposes,
religion may involve a deity, invisible forces and so
on, but we've seen that the religious FEELING, the
behavior attached to faith, can be found in groups
lacking a deity but using some "sacred" symbol as its
focus.
</pre>
</blockquote>
Ummm??? For example? Flag? I am patriotic and religious, and the two
are very different experiences. <br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid20050224201955.55678.qmail@web30809.mail.mud.yahoo.com">
<pre wrap="">
Is religion inherently "politically correct", based on
conformity to one belief? Does it lose its power when
free inquiry and interpretation are encouraged? Or is
belief only a flag added to an already moving force,
the synchronization of bodies, beneath the level of
language? </pre>
</blockquote>
Look at a site like Adherents.com and notice the dialog. Conformity is
never the key, and inquiry and interpretation are ubiquitous. Belief,
not conformity is the common element. There are old saws about get two
Jews together and you get three opinions. Mormons are the same way. The
internal, mental life of a believer is active and vital, and there is
much soul searching and deep reflection. Within religious groups there
is much diversity. <br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid20050224201955.55678.qmail@web30809.mail.mud.yahoo.com">
<pre wrap="">
For anthropological purposes, it might make some sense
to classify religious and nonreligious groups by the
particular forms of entrainment, role modeling, and
conformity enforcement found in them. Under that kind
of classification, a religious group that is very
diverse and individualistic would be qualitatively
different from a religious group that enforces
conformity and engages in "spiritual battle" against
impurity. An atheist group which does the latter would
be classified with the religious group, while an
atheist group populated by diversity generators would
be grouped with liberal religious groups. This might
undermine the traditional "religious vs. nonreligious"
polarity, but it makes more sense to me from a
behavioral standpoint. Any thoughts?
</pre>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">BTW, I don't want to hear arguments that religion is
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->behind most wars. That is a pretty tired argument that
was thoroughly debunked by the 20th Century.<<
--No doubt, religious belief isn't necessary in order
for a group to see another group as evil and worthy of
extermination. It might help a little, however, if you
believe your group is endorsed by a deity who hates
your enemy as much as you do. But, as I mentioned,
that deity can be replaced by the spirit of the group,
if that spirit is unquestioned and has its own
momentum. Perhaps that's what a deity really is, the
hidden face of the power of the group.</pre>
</blockquote>
Well, that lacks the therapeutic qualities of group interaction, faith,
compassion . . . <br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid20050224201955.55678.qmail@web30809.mail.mud.yahoo.com">
<pre wrap="">
Michael
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</pre>
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