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NOTE: If you receive this as a BCC copy (your address isn't attached,
and you aren't on the Paleopsycho list), it is because I liked this
answer to Michael and want to solicit your response.<br>
<br>
Michael Christopher wrote:<br>
<pre wrap="">Lynn says:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Ummm??? For example? Flag? I am patriotic and
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->religious, and the two are very different
experiences.<<
--In what particular ways are they very different? In
what ways are they similar?
Michael
</pre>
<br>
<br>
Michael,<br>
I heard the psychologist Alan Bergin characterize two types of
religiosity - horizontal and vertical. In published reports, Bergin
called those intrinsic and extrinsic.<br>
<br>
The extrinsically religious person experiences little or do difference
between patriotism and religion - both good things, based on a positive
emotional commitment. Both can influence behavior. But the influence is
limited. Patriotic persons can do evil things. Bergin has shown that
extrinsic religiosity is correlated with behavioral problems and
anxiety; intrinsic religiosity is correlated with better mental health
and better long-term health. <br>
<br>
Intrinsic religiosity: In the series <i>Lost</i>, two of the
characters - Sayid and Sawyer - have heard whispering in the forest.
Both have taken human life, and the implication is that is why they
hear the whispers. The sounds come from either their own conscience or
from the actual spirits of those whose lives they have taken. Each of
them tries to deny or rationalize what they have heard. Sawyer asks
Sayid if he heard anything when he was in the forest - Sayid almost
admits, then recants and asks what Sawyer heard. Sawyer almost says,
then recants and says he heard nothing. The two antagonists share
something inexpressible. <br>
<br>
For the intrinsically religious person, that is sort of what religion
is like. There is a very quiet, subtle experience of God tapping on
one's shoulder, a kind of reminder, "You promised to remember Me." If
you have read <i>Surprised by Joy</i> you can understand the
experience. It feels like it clearly comes from outside one's self. The
actual trappings of the religion - for the intrinsically religious
person - seem of little importance, and the personal experience is the
core. It is not so much, "I believe in God" as "God believes in me, and
I know He does." <br>
<br>
So patriotism swells the heart, inspires great deeds, gives one a
feeling of belonging to a worthy community, all positive things. It can
also inspire evil deeds and alienation between us (the good guys) and
the French . . . well, anyone who seems strange and unworthy. This is a
limbic system activity.<br>
<br>
Intrinsic religiosity gives one a sense of one's relationship with God
and with others. It is clearly a right temporal lobe mediated function,
and very different from loyalty and patriotism. I was in San Francisco,
Ghirdelli Square one night with a friend who looks rather like me, only
30# lighter. A young black boy was sitting on a railing, watching us.
"Hey," he said, "you guys brothers?"<br>
<br>
"Yes," I replied, "we are brothers, and you are our brother too."<br>
<br>
"I ain't your brother," he replied scornfully.<br>
<br>
"Yes, you are," I said. "You have just forgotten us."<br>
<br>
Lynn<br>
<br>
PS: Abstracts of three of Bergin's I/E religiosity articles:<br>
<br>
<table width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td align="left" class="docgen-heading">PsycINFO: Citation and
Abstract</td>
<td align="right">
<table>
<tbody>
<tr>
<td><a
href="http://www.psycinfo.com/psycinfo/index.cfm?action=showdoc&docview=CitationAndAbstract&Refs=No&UID=1987-18508-001&Printable=1"
target="_blank"><img
src="cid:part1.01060709.07010109@solution-consulting.com" width="16"
height="14" border="0"></a></td>
<td><a
href="http://www.psycinfo.com/psycinfo/index.cfm?action=showdoc&docview=CitationAndAbstract&Refs=No&UID=1987-18508-001&Printable=1"
class="heading">Printer-friendly version</a></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="2"> <img
src="cid:part2.07080203.05090200@solution-consulting.com" width="600"
height="15" border="0"><br>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<table border="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td class="heading">Title</td>
<td class="text">Religiousness and mental health reconsidered: A
study of an intrinsically religious sample.</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="heading">Abstract</td>
<td class="text">Despite the existence of strong viewpoints, the
relation between
religiousness and mental health is not yet clearly understood. The
Religious Orientation Scale has provided researchers with a valuable
tool for differentiating between intrinsic (I) and extrinsic (E)
religious orientations, thereby clarifying some of the confusion in
this area. In the present study we assessed correlations between these
two scales and anxiety, personality traits, self-control, irrational
beliefs, and depression. Results generally indicated that I is
negatively correlated with anxiety and positively correlated with
self-control and "better" personality functioning, whereas the opposite
is true of E. Correlations were generally not found with irrational
beliefs or depression. By dividing subjects into a fourfold typology,
we discovered that 98.6% of the present sample of religious students
were "intrinsics." When their personality scores were compared with
those of other normal populations, trends slightly favoring this
intrinsic sample were observed. Thus, these results indicated that I is
related to "normality" and that religiousness is not necessarily
indicative of emotional disturbance. Some implications for counseling
are suggested. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2004 APA, all rights
reserved)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="heading">Authors</td>
<td class="text">Bergin, Allen E.; Masters, Kevin S.; Richards,
P. Scott</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="heading">Affiliations</td>
<td class="text">Bergin, Allen E.: Brigham Young U, UT</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="heading">Source</td>
<td class="text">Journal of Counseling Psychology. 34(2), Apr
1987, 197-204.</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
<br>
<table width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td align="left" class="docgen-heading">PsycINFO: Citation and
Abstract</td>
<td align="right">
<table>
<tbody>
<tr>
<td><a
href="http://www.psycinfo.com/psycinfo/index.cfm?action=showdoc&docview=CitationAndAbstract&Refs=No&UID=1988-20093-001&Printable=1"
target="_blank"><img
src="cid:part1.01060709.07010109@solution-consulting.com" width="16"
height="14" border="0"></a></td>
<td><a
href="http://www.psycinfo.com/psycinfo/index.cfm?action=showdoc&docview=CitationAndAbstract&Refs=No&UID=1988-20093-001&Printable=1"
class="heading">Printer-friendly version</a></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="2"> <img
src="cid:part2.07080203.05090200@solution-consulting.com" width="600"
height="15" border="0"><br>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<table border="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td class="heading">Title</td>
<td class="text">Religious life-styles and mental health: An
exploratory study.</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="heading">Abstract</td>
<td class="text">Conducted an intensive, case-by-case assessment
of life-styles of a
sample of religious students. We identified differing styles of
religiousness and made comparisons by means of tests and interviews
between subgroups whose subjects manifested differing religious
life-styles. Those subjects with continuous religious development and
mild religious experiences appeared to be healthier than those with
discontinuous development and intense religious experiences; however,
intense religious experiences tended to enhance the adjustment of those
who experienced them. There was no evidence in the group as a whole for
an overall negative or positive correlation between religiousness and
mental health, but some modes of religious involvement appeared to be
related to disturbance, whereas other modes appeared to be related to
enhanced stability and resilience. Because causality in these relations
remains uncertain, we generate hypotheses concerning further studies of
life-styles and adjustment. We also discuss implications for student
counseling and development. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2004 APA, all
rights reserved)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="heading">Authors</td>
<td class="text">Bergin, Allen E.; Stinchfield, Randy D.; Gaskin,
Thomas A.; Masters, Kevin S.; et al</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="heading">Affiliations</td>
<td class="text">Bergin, Allen E.: Brigham Young U, Provo, UT, US</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="heading">Source</td>
<td class="text">Journal of Counseling Psychology. 35(1), Jan
1988, 91-98.</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
<table width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td align="left" class="docgen-heading">PsycINFO: Citation and
Abstract</td>
<td align="right">
<table>
<tbody>
<tr>
<td><a
href="http://www.psycinfo.com/psycinfo/index.cfm?action=showdoc&docview=CitationAndAbstract&Refs=No&UID=1991-25111-001&Printable=1"
target="_blank"><img
src="cid:part1.01060709.07010109@solution-consulting.com" width="16"
height="14" border="0"></a></td>
<td><a
href="http://www.psycinfo.com/psycinfo/index.cfm?action=showdoc&docview=CitationAndAbstract&Refs=No&UID=1991-25111-001&Printable=1"
class="heading">Printer-friendly version</a></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="2"> <img
src="cid:part2.07080203.05090200@solution-consulting.com" width="600"
height="15" border="0"><br>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<table border="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td class="heading">Title</td>
<td class="text">Values and religious issues in psychotherapy and
mental health.</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="heading">Abstract</td>
<td class="text">A decade of work by A. E. Bergin and others is
reviewed and synthesized
concerning 2 broad issues: (a) the role of values in psychotherapy and
(b) the relation of religion to mental health. Trends have changed, and
there is now more professional support for addressing values issues in
treatment. There is also more openness to the healthy potentialities of
religious involvement, and therapists themselves manifest a new level
of personal interest in such matters. Cautions and guidelines for
dealing with such issues are considered in both empirical and clinical
terms. The multifactorial nature of religion is documented, and healthy
and unhealthy ways of being religious are described. Suggestions are
given for including education in values and religious issues in the
training of clinicians so that the vast population of religious
clientele may be better served. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2004 APA,
all rights reserved)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="heading">Authors</td>
<td class="text">Bergin, Allen E.</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="heading">Affiliations</td>
<td class="text">Bergin, Allen E.: Brigham Young U, Provo, UT, US</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="heading">Source</td>
<td class="text">American Psychologist. 46(4), Apr 1991, 394-403.</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
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