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<DIV>Joel--</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Your CA approach, based on the building of barriers, distinctions,
boundaries,membranes, and other separators is extremely helpful.
The CA approach in general has been a useful tool for understanding
self-organization of extraordinary complexity based on very, very simple
rules. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>But I have a question. The whorls Basse talks about in his
mini-big-bangs are apparently similar to the irregular whorls that Smoot claims
rumpled the first burst of time/space in the big bang. Those creases and
rumples led to the irregular distribution of galaxies, galaxies spread in
irregular bubble-like interlaces. How do CA models and math generate these
irregularities?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Or, to put this in Bloomian terms, what, aside from your CA separators, are
the diversity generators that make things ragged? Is there a rule
underlying what would seem at first glance to be messy, mussed, and
irregular?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Wolfram's CA systems can generate what looks like chaos from simple
rules. Meaning that simple CA-style rules may underlie even the seemingly
random. But does your CA system do this, too? And does the math of
Basse do it?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>One last question. CA systems are the gift of a technological
tool--the computer. What new metaphoric systems, what new forms of
understanding, may emerge from technologies that do not yet exist?
Howard</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 6/10/2005 9:50:59 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
isaacsonj@hotmail.com writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>Yes,
Howard, we are talking about same/similar stuff. I was surprised
to <BR>see Nils Basse's<BR>suggestion of mini-big-bangs... especially
since I have been talking about <BR>that possibility<BR>for some time
now... albeit from a different perspective.<BR><BR>My perspective is
tied to CA-like processes that are anchored in perception. <BR>
The self-similarity<BR>at all scales of those Ur-Patterns is a reflection of
the self-similarity of <BR>the underlying processes,<BR>effected
recursively. Those underlying processes are CA-like and their
<BR>basic rule is<BR>local distinction-making.<BR><BR>The scheme is not quite
mathematical in the ordinary sense, although it is
<BR>processually<BR>well-defined and readily representable by ordinary
computational processes. <BR> Many of the usual CA rules have some
mathematical flavor. However, here <BR>we have the rule of
distinction-making that is a natural process common in <BR>the biology of
perception -- not necessarily thru formal mathematical means.<BR><BR>I do
agree that mathematics serves via metaphors vis-a-vis natural processes
<BR>described by same,<BR>and that all we could expect is finding/adopting the
best mathematical <BR>metaphor that<BR>may fit a particular natural
phenomenon. My CA-like processes, while not <BR>strictly
mathematical,<BR>serve the same purpose; i.e., are metaphors aimed at a
sweeping capture of <BR>natural<BR>phenomena, from visual perception (and
perception in general) to processes <BR>generating<BR>elementary particles,
and big bang-like scenarios, and many things in <BR>between...<BR><BR>Btw, I
corresponded with Noam Chomsky in 1972 about those CA... but it has
<BR>been<BR>obviously premature... he has been very polite but professed
to not <BR>"understand<BR>the import" of these things.
Nevertheless, I did adopt his notions of <BR>surface<BR>and deep structures
and incorporated those into the patent application in <BR>1975.<BR><BR>--
Joel<BR><BR><BR><BR>>From: HowlBloom@aol.com<BR>>To:
isaacsonj@hotmail.com<BR>>CC: paleopsych@paleopsych.org<BR>>Subject: Re:
Big bang in mm sizes<BR>>Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 01:03:14
EDT<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>As always, we are on the same wavelength,
Joel. This article has Ur<BR>>Patterns written all over it--patterns
that show up on multiple level of <BR>>emergence,<BR>>patterns
that metaphors can capture.<BR>><BR>>Why are these patterns so easily
graspable by metaphor? Because metaphor <BR>>is<BR>>one
concrete example of an Ur Pattern that repeats itself on
multiple<BR>>levels. Meaning that metaphor is not just a literary
trick. It is a way <BR>>of<BR>>capturing something deep and
repetitive in this cosmos--a deep structure <BR>>if you<BR>>prefer
to use Noam Chomsky's vocabulary.<BR>><BR>>Not all metaphors are
valid. But when you find the right one for the<BR>>phenomenon you're
watching, you've hit gold.<BR>><BR>>And never forget, math is metaphor
in disguise. Onward--Howard<BR>><BR>>In a message dated 6/9/2005
2:23:17 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,<BR>>isaacsonj@hotmail.com
writes:<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>Plasma in reactors echoes distribution
of galaxies<BR>>11 June 2005<BR>>NewScientist.com news
service<BR>>Mark Anderson<BR>><BR>>NUCLEAR fusion reactors
could be used to study what the universe was like<BR>>just after the
big bang. So claims a physicist who noticed that the plasma<BR>>created
inside these reactors is distributed in a strikingly similar way
<BR>>to<BR>>galaxies in today's universe.<BR>><BR>>Nils
Basse of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology does not
normally<BR>>concern himself with events in the early universe.
Instead, he studies<BR>>turbulence in the plasma created in fusion
reactors. But when he chanced<BR>>upon the Sloan Digital Sky Survey (SDSS)
- which is mapping a quarter of <BR>>the<BR>>sky in detail - he
noticed something uncanny. The mathematical equation<BR>>governing
the distribution of voids and galaxies looks remarkably like
the<BR>>one describing the millimetre-sized knots and clots of plasma
in the<BR>>Wendelstein 7-AS "stellarator" fusion reactor in Garching,
Germany <BR>>(Physics<BR>>Letters A, vol 340, p
456).<BR>><BR>>Basse argues that the distribution of galaxies today
could be the result <BR>>of<BR>>variations in the density of
plasma after the big bang. "I think it all<BR>>comes from turbulence
in the very early universe," he says. "[The galaxy<BR>>distribution
today] is just a blow-up of what was going on at that
point."<BR>>This suggests that stellarator reactors could serve as models
of the early<BR>>universe.<BR>><BR>><BR>>But cosmologist
Daniel Eisenstein of the University of Arizona in Tucson,<BR>>who
works on the SDSS project, disagrees. He points out that the kind
of<BR>>plasma that Basse describes existed only for the first
millisecond after <BR>>the<BR>>big bang, and that epoch ended too
soon to influence the large scale<BR>>structure of today's universe.
Eisenstein calculates that the largest<BR>>structure that could have
arisen because of any such primordial density<BR>>variations would
only stretch a few light years across today.<BR>><BR>>“The plasma
created inside fusion reactors is distributed in a
<BR>>strikingly<BR>>similar way to galaxies in today's
universe”Eisenstein also says that<BR>>Basse's claim is difficult to
reconcile with the results of the Wilkinson<BR>>Microwave Anisotropy
Probe (WMAP), which has mapped the distribution of
<BR>>the<BR>>oldest light in the universe dating back to some
380,000 years after the <BR>>big<BR>>bang. This "baby picture" of
the cosmos yields markedly different density<BR>>fluctuations to the
SDSS map. "I don't see any way to get turbulence into<BR>>this mix
without throwing out all the [WMAP] data," Eisenstein says.
"And<BR>>that's very powerful data."<BR>><BR>>From issue 2503
of New Scientist magazine, 11 June 2005, page
8<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>----------<BR>>Howard
Bloom<BR>>Author of The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition
Into the Forces <BR>>of<BR>>History and Global Brain: The
Evolution of Mass Mind From The Big Bang to <BR>>the<BR>>21st
Century<BR>>Recent Visiting Scholar-Graduate Psychology Department,
New York <BR>>University;<BR>>Core Faculty Member, The
Graduate
Institute<BR>>www.howardbloom.net<BR>>www.bigbangtango.net<BR>>Founder:
International Paleopsychology Project; founding board member:
<BR>>Epic<BR>>of Evolution Society; founding board member, The
Darwin Project; founder: <BR>>The<BR>>Big Bang Tango Media Lab;
member: New York Academy of Sciences, American<BR>>Association for
the Advancement of Science, American Psychological
<BR>>Society,<BR>>Academy of Political Science, Human Behavior and
Evolution Society, <BR>>International<BR>>Society for Human
Ethology; advisory board member: Youthactivism.org;<BR>>executive editor --
New Paradigm book series.<BR>>For information on The International
Paleopsychology Project, see:<BR>>www.paleopsych.org<BR>>for two
chapters from<BR>>The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into
the Forces of History,<BR>>see www.howardbloom.net/lucifer<BR>>For
information on Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind from the
Big<BR>>Bang to the 21st Century, see
www.howardbloom.net<BR>><BR><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>paleopsych
mailing
list<BR>paleopsych@paleopsych.org<BR>http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych<BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT lang=0 face=Arial size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"
PTSIZE="10">----------<BR>Howard Bloom<BR>Author of The Lucifer Principle: A
Scientific Expedition Into the Forces of History and Global Brain: The Evolution
of Mass Mind From The Big Bang to the 21st Century<BR>Recent Visiting
Scholar-Graduate Psychology Department, New York University; Core Faculty
Member, The Graduate
Institute<BR>www.howardbloom.net<BR>www.bigbangtango.net<BR>Founder:
International Paleopsychology Project; founding board member: Epic of Evolution
Society; founding board member, The Darwin Project; founder: The Big Bang Tango
Media Lab; member: New York Academy of Sciences, American Association for the
Advancement of Science, American Psychological Society, Academy of Political
Science, Human Behavior and Evolution Society, International Society for Human
Ethology; advisory board member: Youthactivism.org; executive editor -- New
Paradigm book series.<BR>For information on The International Paleopsychology
Project, see: www.paleopsych.org<BR>for two chapters from <BR>The Lucifer
Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into the Forces of History, see
www.howardbloom.net/lucifer<BR>For information on Global Brain: The Evolution of
Mass Mind from the Big Bang to the 21st Century, see
www.howardbloom.net<BR></FONT></DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>