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<DIV><SPAN class=083120715-24112005>If complexity increases over time
then</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=083120715-24112005>conscious entities would require
new,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=083120715-24112005>larger scale abstractions in order
to</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=083120715-24112005>understand and possibly
manipulate</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=083120715-24112005>the whole.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=083120715-24112005></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=083120715-24112005>Steve H.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=083120715-24112005></SPAN> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
paleopsych-bounces@paleopsych.org
[mailto:paleopsych-bounces@paleopsych.org]<B>On Behalf Of
</B>HowlBloom@aol.com<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, November 23, 2005 9:19
PM<BR><B>To:</B> kurakin1970@yandex.ru<BR><B>Cc:</B>
paleopsych@paleopsych.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Paleopsych] Eshel and
Pavel--time as a translator<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT id=role_document
face=Arial size=3>
<DIV>
<DIV>Eshel--It's been much too long since we've communicated and I've missed
you.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Have I introduced you to Pavel Kurakin, from the Keldysh Institute of
Applied Mathematics of the Russian Academy of Science in Moscow? Thanks
to Pavel I gave a presentation at the international conference Quantum
Informatics 2005 in Moscow a month ago.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>That presentation stressed the fact that no quantum particle is an
island. All particles in the real world are part of mobs. So
understanding mob behavior is critical to physics. My example of a mob
in motion was derived from your work on bacterial colonies and credited you
heavily.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The dialog below also owes a great deal to you--specifically to the
questions you tossed me on information way back when.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>And as I continue the discussion, which I'll do below, you'll become even
more a part of it. Howard</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 11/23/2005 9:18:47 AM Eastern Standard Time,
kurakin1970@yandex.ru writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial size=2>hb: Time is a
communication of past to future via the interpretive process we call
<BR>the present. <BR><BR>pavel kurakin: fantastic formulation. it could seem
trivial but one point: "communication" means flow in both sides.
Triviality turns out to be extreme innovation. this is what i call "hidden
time" and what you call "mob emotions". I would add
"plans".</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>hb: Rich, rich thought-food, Pavel. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>My first intuition is that the communication called time is
one-way But thinking through your inner time hypothesis and pondering
the link to the future that the word "plans" involves, you may be right.
The inner-time hypothesis is about two-way communication in which the present
signals to a semblance of the future and moves according to the feedback it
gets back. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>A plan, a sense of a future objective, plays a major role in Eshel
Ben-Jacob's interpretation of bacterial colonies as creative webs. I
also suspect a goal plays a role in the rules by which the present translates
the past into future.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Which brings us back to teleonomy. Teleonomy is biologist
Ernst Mayr's way of smuggling a whiff of teleology back into legitimate
science. Do you know about teleology and teleonomy? </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Here's a for more relevant question. If the present is the process
that translates the past into the future, what rules does it use? And do
those rules change as the complexity of the present and of the future
grow? Howard</DIV>
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<DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT lang=0 face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10"
FAMILY="SANSSERIF">----------<BR>Howard Bloom<BR>Author of The Lucifer
Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into the Forces of History and Global
Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind From The Big Bang to the 21st
Century<BR>Recent Visiting Scholar-Graduate Psychology Department, New York
University; Core Faculty Member, The Graduate
Institute<BR>www.howardbloom.net<BR>www.bigbangtango.net<BR>Founder:
International Paleopsychology Project; founding board member: Epic of
Evolution Society; founding board member, The Darwin Project; founder: The Big
Bang Tango Media Lab; member: New York Academy of Sciences, American
Association for the Advancement of Science, American Psychological Society,
Academy of Political Science, Human Behavior and Evolution Society,
International Society for Human Ethology; advisory board member: Institute for
Accelerating Change ; executive editor -- New Paradigm book series.<BR>For
information on The International Paleopsychology Project, see:
www.paleopsych.org<BR>for two chapters from <BR>The Lucifer Principle: A
Scientific Expedition Into the Forces of History, see
www.howardbloom.net/lucifer<BR>For information on Global Brain: The Evolution
of Mass Mind from the Big Bang to the 21st Century, see
www.howardbloom.net<BR></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BODY></HTML>