[extropy-chat] Alice's Dilemma

JDP jacques at dtext.com
Sun Feb 22 17:44:21 UTC 2004

Hi Joao!

I am not convinced, but these are minor, non-content points anyway, so...

Let it be said that one can refute Joy with Kaczynksi's essay, which
makes you wonder if Joy, who quotes Kaczynski, actually read it in

For example (but this comes again and again in the whole essay):

   "121. A further reason why industrial society cannot be reformed in
   favor of freedom is that modern technology is a unified system in
   which all parts are dependent on one another. You can't get rid of
   the "bad" parts of technology and retain only the "good" parts.
   Take modern medicine, for example. Progress in medical science
   depends on progress in chemistry, physics, biology, computer
   science and other fields. Advanced medical treatments require
   expensive, high-tech equipment that can be made available only by a
   technologically progressive, economically rich society. Clearly you
   can't have much Progress in medicine without the whole
   technological system and everything that goes with it."

   (TK, _Industrial Society and Its Future_)


Joao Magalhaes a écrit (22.2.2004/14:54) :

> Hi!
> As BillK said, this paper is not aimed at extropians but rather is an 
> introductionary view of the Singularity. As for the flaws mentioned by 
> Jacques, I disagree. A dilemma is: "a state of uncertainty or perplexity 
> especially as requiring a choice between equally unfavorable options". The 
> Singularity is uncertain and perplexing. From a non-extropian perspective, 
> these are frightening ideas and so even though one possibility is clearly 
> favourable, it does not mean that will be the chosen one by the human 
> species. As for the Unabomber, he defends a change in society to eliminate 
> technology, which I see as another form of relinquishment. His methods and 
> ultimate goal may be more radical than Bill Joy's but they share the same 
> philosophy of abandoning technology.
> All the best,
> Joao

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