[extropy-chat] Re: Limitpushers and Limitexplorers (Was: Altered genes)

[Anders Sandberg]

söndagen den 28 mars 2004 01.47 wrote Robert J. Bradbury:
> I'm going to throw
> this out there (and you should feel free to critique it).  Extropianism
> is about developing something greater that one can admire.  Transhumanism
> is about developing something different that may be interesting.  Nothing
> wrong with things that are different that one might admire (the late
> '60s and early '70's had a lot of this).  But one has to come back to
> the laws of physics.  When you push the peddle to the floor how fast
> does the car go?  So Extropianism is about exploring the limits
> with a background desire to stretch them.  Transhumanism is not.
>
> Key question that extropians may engage in but transhumanists may not:
>   "What are you doing to alter the fate of the universe?"

Interesting dichotomy, but I don't see it as being between transhumanism and 
extropianism. Rather, both strains exist within both groups. 

The key problem is defining "better". In modernist America it is far easier to 
claim that something is good or better than in postmodernist Europe, where 
sceptics always ask "better to whom?" with a nasty smile. The easy way out is 
to say you want something different rather than better. This might actually 
be why one sees a slight difference between extropians (center of mass of 
self proclaimed extropians is likely in the US) and transhumanists (center of 
mass probably still in the US, but a larger contingent in Europe). 

Maybe one could distinguish between limitpushers and limitexplorers by their 
interests: moving beyond limits in order to achieve more of something, and 
moving around in the vast space inside the limits exploring it, perhaps 
finding sneaky ways around them but mainly seeing that as a chance for more 
exploration rather than a help in storming the cosmos. But things are more 
complex: right now we have some problems we really need to push - ageing and 
death, lack of freedom, material wants etc. These things need to be pushed 
back even if one is an explorer. And the limitpushers likely have some goals 
beyond pushing limits - that in itself seems rather ascetic - that motivates 
them to go onwards. 


-- 
Anders Sandberg
http://www.nada.kth.se/~asa
http://www.aleph.se/andart/

The sum of human knowledge sounds nice. But I want more.