[extropy-chat] Atheists launch inquisition...

[Technotranscendence]

On Friday, November 26, 2004 9:42 AM Mike Lorrey mlorrey at yahoo.com
wrote:
>> Definition 2 seems to be dealing with
>> religious matters but here again there
>> is nothing which logically links Atheism
>> with faith.  For example you can be an
>> Atheist without having a "firm belief in
>> something for which there is no proof".
>
> On the contrary. A firm belief in the claim
> that there is no God, or other universe-
> creator-being, humanity-creator-being,
> etc... is a claim to a proof which is not in
> evidence, and, given the Simulation
> Argument, is contrary to evidence
> currently available.

Au contrare!  Mike conflates "God" with creator-being, especially for
such mundane things as creating humanity.  The God meant by theism is a
God that literally is transcendent -- beyond reality.  It may be a
creator, but if so, then can create everything else -- the simulation
and whatever is outside it.  Either way, it is beyond everything else -- 
beyond the simulation and what's outside it.

Now, just from a common sense viewpoint, when someone writes a computer
game (or a novel), daydreams, or builds a house, one does not call that
person God and wouldn't confuse her with the God as meant by theism.
When one does -- assuming one isn't mad:) -- one is only being
metaphorical and not implying that the writer, daydreamer, builder,
whatever is really a god, a transcendent being.

Further the Simulation Argument per se does not really speak to this
matter -- it can not ground belief in a supernatural God of the kind
theism posits -- but even if it did it would require some kind of
validation.  I think a lot of people buy into it and earlier versions of
it -- like Descartes _malin genie_ and Berkeley's view that everything
is in the mind of God -- without really considering that.

Regards,

Dan
    See "Family, Social Order, and Government" at:
http://uweb.superlink.net/neptune/FamilySOG.html

"It is appropriate here to recall that the so-called Dark Ages began
with the flight of the individuals into the protection of lords or
chapters and came to an end when the individual again found it to his
advantage to set forth on his own. We live at a time when everything
conspires to push the individual into the fold." -- Bertrand de Jouvenel