[extropy-chat] The Trouble With Religion

Olga Bourlin fauxever at sprynet.com
Sun Apr 10 20:56:02 UTC 2005

From: "Mike Lorrey" <mlorrey at yahoo.com>
> --- Emlyn <emlynoregan at gmail.com> wrote:

> "In Europe the bombing of a railway station in Madrid and the murder of
> the Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh are being seen as warnings that the
> secular principles that underlie any humanist democracy need to be
> defended and reinforced. Even before these atrocities occurred, the
> French decision to ban religious attire such as Islamic headscarves had
> the support of the entire political spectrum. Islamist demands for
> segregated classes and prayer breaks were also rejected. Few Europeans> 
> today call themselves religious - only 21 per cent, according to a> recent 
> European Values Study, as opposed to 59 per cent of Americans,> according 
> to the Pew Forum. In Europe the Enlightenment represented an> escape from 
> the power of religion to place limiting points on thought,> while in 
> America it represented an escape into the religious freedom of> the New 
> World - a move toward faith, rather than away from it. Many> Europeans now 
> view the American combination of religion and nationalism> as 
> frightening."

> Yet it was european atheism that created the Holocaust, the genocides
> of Stalin, how quickly these are apparently forgotten....

Oh, Michael, Michael, Michael ... do you see the words "secular principles 
that underlie any humanist democracy need to be defended and reinforced" up 

Your subsequent diatribe is irrelevant, because you started invoking 

Figure out what the secular principles underlying humanist democracy are, 
and then we'll talk.  (Atheism doesn't have any "philosophy" per se behind 
it - secular humanism has principles, and that is what Rushdie mentioned in 
his article.)


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