[extropy-chat] Re: Re: (Ethics/Epistemology) Arrow of Morality [Was:The statement that

Dirk Bruere dirk at neopax.com
Fri Apr 15 01:22:32 UTC 2005

The Avantguardian wrote:

>--- john-c-wright at sff.net wrote:
>>W: Oddly enough, I was just today reading GK
>>Chesterton's ORTHODOXY, where he
>>makes the argument that the fundamental difference
>>between Eastern and Western
>>philosophy, between Buddhism and Christianity, is
>>the Eastern identification of
>>self with the unity of the universe, versus the
>>Western identification of the
>>self separate from (in Christian terms, fallen from)
>>unity with the creator of
>>the universe. There are things greater than oneself,
>>for which the hero, the
>>saint and the philosopher lays down his life. One
>>could adopt an Eastern
>>terminology and say that a lesser "self" was being
>>sacrificed to serve a greater
>>"self"; or one could adopt a Western terminology and
>>say that the "self" was
>>being sacrificed to the other, an ideal to whom one
>>owes service. The former
>>describes sacrifice as enlightened self-interest,
>>and praises enlightenment; the
>>latter describes sacrifice as selflessness, and
>>praises love. 
>>My question here is twofold: first, do these two
>>descriptions map onto each
>>other? Second, if not, does one describe the nature
>>of self-sacrifice better
>>than the other?
>Yes, the two descriptions DO map onto each other. The
>enlightenment described by eastern philosophy is the
>realization that the "local" self is an illusion and
>only the "universal self" truly exists. Once you come
Or, if Zen Budhhism, that there is no 'self' at any level.

>      As far as Dirk's QM argument is concerned, if
>there is nothing really real outside of what is
>measured, then what about the math that is performed
>on the measurements? And what about the observer that
>is doing the measuring? And why would any two
>observers agree on any one measurement?          
That's a complex issue and one which has still not been resolved to the 
satisfaction of the majority of physicists.
Ditto the question of whether math is invented or discovered, or a 
combination of the two.


The Consensus:-
The political party for the new millenium

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