[extropy-chat] Re: [SOCIO] Cooperation and diversity

Dirk Bruere dirk at neopax.com
Tue Apr 26 16:44:42 UTC 2005

Jef Allbright wrote:

> Jef:  Rather, we can expect *increased* diversity, but within an 
> increasingly aware cultural framework that recognizes and promotes the 
> enhanced value of cooperative interaction among diverse agents.
> Dirk:  I think that the opposite is likely. That with increasing 
> diversity there will come a massive, and polarised, competition 
> between new Human species. Racism writ larger than ever. Those who 
> don't 'look after their own' preferentially will lose out to those who 
> do.
> <Snips>
> Dirk:  'Self' in the current bigger picture is the success of 
> propagating ones genes into the future.  With immortals that big 
> picture shrinks down to more immediate self.
> Jef:  I'm arguing *for* evolutionary theory, and saying that 
> synergy--what we call "cooperation" when it's between agents--is 
> fundamental to survival and growth of any evolving system.
> Dirk:  Of course it is, but 99% of all the species that have existed 
> are extinct.  Co-operation occurs within species and competition 
> between species in the same ecological niche.  I susepct that one of 
> the defining aspects of PostHumans is that their 'niche' will 
> encompass just about everything.
> -------------------
> Ah, I think I now understand the basis of your assertion of "massive, 
> and polarized, competition between new Human species. Racism writ 
> larger than ever."  Given an immediate Self effectively 
> all-encompassing due to near immortality, and vastly expanded 
> environment for this selfish Self to grow into, then I can see why you 
> would predict this kind of all or nothing competition.
> However, I would argue that as the Players evolve, so does the Game, 
> and that when we reach this level of growth and capability, the game 
> will be qualitatively different.  I hesitate to make any predictions, 
> from my limited point of view, of what such a qualitatively different 
> game would be like, but I can offer one likely example:
> Physical size and spread will continue to be a competitive advantage 
> in terms of "holding the high ground", being able to flank and 
> surround an enemy, and being able to store and utilize massive 
> resources.  However, a system spread even as far around as the Earth 
> would have inherent problems of communication latency between its 
> subsystems.  For this reason, the hypothetical PostHuman Self can not 
> be shrunk down as you suggest because to do so would limit its ability 
> to compete.  Thus, it seems the hypothetical PostHuman must 
> necessarily be in the form of a "culture" of semi-autonomous, and thus 
> highly cooperative, subsystems.
> In summary, the most successful (read effectively competitive) systems 
> of the future can be expected to possess more diversity (degrees of 
> freedom), AND be more highly cooperative, than those of today.

Which is why I claimed in another thread IIRC that PostHumans will 
evolve into one of two forms. Super self reliant individuals and hive minds.
As for the semi-autonomous bits within such hive minds, think 
I see the 'individuals' getting out of town really fast because of their 
inability to compete, and evolutionary convergence to a single planetary 
(or even solar system) hive mind. Whether the latter is achieved via 
merger, extermination or assimilation by conquest I can't guess.


The Consensus:-
The political party for the new millenium

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