[extropy-chat] letter concerning presidential growth

[Harvey Newstrom]

On Dec 15, 2005, at 10:48 PM, spike wrote:

>> bounces at lists.extropy.org] On Behalf Of Harvey Newstrom
>>>>
>>>> Thus do I defer to the moderators.
>>>>
>>>> Joseph
>>>
>>> Post away.
>>
>> Spike, are you deliberately trying to destroy this list?
>>
>> --
>> Harvey Newstrom <HarveyNewstrom.com>
>
>
> No.  A week of political posts will not destroy the
> list, otherwise we would have destroyed ourselves a
> hundred times over.

I disagree.  We have had many groups splinter away from ExI because of 
the politics.  These splinter groups don't disagree with our extropian 
or transhumanist viewpoints, rather they disagree with some of the 
political discussions that have occurred on this list.  Even when Max 
and Natasha insist that ExI is not political, these people point to the 
list as the source of their political disagreements.  The largest 
example of this would be WTA, which deliberately split off to form an 
alternative transhumanist group, largely with the same transhumanist 
agenda, just lacking the politics historically found on this list.

> If people have something to say
> that is not particularly extropian, say it this week
> then let it go.

You make my point for me.  You are deliberately allowing this list to 
be overrun with discussion that is not particularly extropian.  Why 
would we want that?

>   We don't want this to be a primarily political list (too boring, not 
> productive) but I see
> little harm (and some benefit) from suggesting a
> short well-defined time for a political free-for-all.

If it's not particularly extropian, and too boring and not productive, 
this seems to be the opposite of what the extropians list used to be.  
These are the exact qualities that moderators are supposed to be 
fighting against.  You have become the "Anti-Moderator!"  :-)

> The war is weighing heavily on all of us.  True we
> could go elsewhere to discuss this important matter,
> but Harvey man, we have grown up together have we
> not?

Then lets also talk about our hemorrhoids in chemistry class, our 
favorite recipies when we visit our doctor, and interrupt the evening 
news with clips from Ren and Stimpy.  There is nothing wrong with these 
discussions, but why must they be inserted into a list primarily 
intended for other purposes?  Nobody objects to these topics being 
discussed, but the net is virtually infinite.  There is no need to 
interrupt one topic to introduce another.  You are simply filing 
politics under the label of extropian discussion on the Internet and 
confusing everybody.

>   You, me, a lot of us who have been hanging out
> on extropians for years, we are among friends here,
> we are among people who understand us, people who
> do not flee in panic when we start talking about having
> our heads frozen.  This is where we want to have our
> discussions.  So let us have this one.  For a week,
> keep it civil, then let it go.

All of these statements are non-sequiturs.  Avoiding panic and keeping 
it civil are strawman arguments for why it should be allowed here.  But 
they don't answer the real question:  Why here?  Why us?  Why now?  Why 
not on its own list with only those people interested in it?  I have 
never understood the need for spammers, religious proselytizers, 
pseudo-science crackpots and political pundits to force their views 
where into unrelated forums.  It is almost like they know if it were 
presented elsewhere that it would not draw a crowd.  They want to 
co-opt an existing crowd that has gathered for some other purpose and 
claim it for their own purposes.

--
Harvey Newstrom <HarveyNewstrom.com>
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