[extropy-chat] The NeoCon Mind-Trick (was letterconcerningpresidential growth)

[Brett Paatsch]

spike wrote:

>> bounces at lists.extropy.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Davis
> ...
>> 
>> A playground sneer won't kill ~100,000+2150 and
>> counting, loot the treasury of 200-and-counting
>> billion dollars, destroy the promise and reputation of
>> a great nation, and make its political elite the next
>> in line for the dock in the Hague.
>> 
>> Best, Jeff Davis
> 
> 
> On the Iraq war question, Kerry didn't differentiate 
> himself from W in the 2004 election, even when repeatedly
> pressed to do so.  That's what I recall.  Did others hear
> differently?  We had two nearly indistinguishable hawks 
> screeching at each other last time.

Yes, Kerry was as far apart from Bush as you and John
are from me on the war. He was as much in advance on
Bush on the war as he was on stem cells.

This is not a Democrat/Republican or left right split. It might
be a levels of moral reasoning split. I suspect it probably is.

See Kohlbergs levels of moral reasoning via Google
if you want to see what I mean. I haven't spell checked
Kohlberg but its phonetically correct. 

Lower levels of moral reasoning see less nuance. Saddly
in the current world things are sufficiently complex that folk
can genuinely think they are morally in the right and are 
acting for extropy and the progress of humanity and actually
be doing the exact opposite because they do not have the 
ability to see the important distinctions. 

Lower levels see less of the whole decision tree and are 
biased towards their position on it.  

One of the problems I face when talking about the war
is that I don't know if the folk I am talking too can hold
enough of the tree, the complextity in their heads. 

People think I am going over the same stuff over and
over but they aren't seeing the nuance. To a child there
is only the good guys and the bad guys. And they are
always the good guys. Morally reasoning above that
level is boring and repetitive to a child they just want
the authority figure or parent to adjudicate in their
favour and then go play with their toys. 

We could talk about politics and the war and why 
America will lose the war on terror and why it was
inevitable that it would loose from the outset but
folk that don't have the ability to see all aspects 
won't get it. 

International law and game theory are key aspects.

History and what has been done in the past are
key aspects. 

Being able to undress propaganda, unspin spin
and recognize ones own biases are key aspects.

Anyway this is a diversion but I needed to say it
Spike. I like you but I think the reason you can't
see the difference between Kerry and Bush is
that you are probably not smart enough. 

Of course, someone might object and say but
hey Brett how do you know that it is you that
is the one that is not smart enough. And I would
reply that I can fully understand the arguments all
the arguments that you have made and can walk
through them showing the branches on the tree
but to do so takes time and many branches on
the tree look like other branches of the tree and
for observers all they would see is reiterations
of branches with more of those boring leaves
and twigs over and over.  

Anyway I have until the 22nd so I will persist
with trying to moral reason at the risk of boring
the majority until then. 

Brett Paatsch