[extropy-chat] Re: US not right to invade say Iraqis

[Samantha Atkins]

On Dec 19, 2005, at 12:57 PM, John K Clark wrote:

> "Samantha Atkins" <sjatkins at mac.com>
>
>> We and the Iraqis would have been better off to have not done Desert
>> Storm in 91 and to have never imposed the sanctions.
>
> Well you're half right. A thief is always better off if he is not  
> caught so
> yes, the Iraqis would have been better off if they could invade their
> neighbors and receive no opposition, not even sanctions. (Could we  
> at least
> give Saddam a tongue lashing or is even that too harsh?) The Iraqis  
> would be
> better off but the rest of the world would not be.

The point was that Kuwait was stealing Iraqi oil.  Saddam asked us if  
we had any problem with the action he proposed to take.  we said  
"no".  Then we proceeded to pretend to be surprise and to outright  
lie about the size of force involved and Saddam's intentions.  We  
faked satellite data and put out preposterous stories (e.g., babies  
taken from incubators and killed).

>
> Without Desert Storm Saddam Hussein today would have his hand on the
> throttle of the world economy, he would rule the top 3 oil exporting
> countries on Earth, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, and Kuwait

You have no way to support such a wild guess.   he had no intentions  
to rule either country afaik.  What would he gain by such an attempt  
but a world of hurt?   He got the hurt but outside our propaganda and  
fraud at the time it may be harder to prove such intent.  Making  
success likely IF he did have such intent is harder still.

> and he would own 50% of
> the oil on this planet. Saddam would be richer than God and after  
> having
> first hand experience with the spineless nature of western  
> democracies I
> have no doubt he would open his checkbook and pursue exotic and  
> horrible
> weapons with a vengeance.
>
> One of the reasons I didn't vote for John Kerry was his opposition  
> of the
> war in 91, which was an even bigger blunder than Bush starting a  
> war in 03.
> But in all fairness to Mr. Kerry, at least he thought we should impose
> sanctions, but you say even that is to big a punishment just for  
> murdering
> thousands and invading your rich neighbors.

That was one of the few reasons that I considered voting for him.   I  
have no beef with sanctions without DS for real evils of Saddam and  
country rather than fabricated ones.  But not to the degree or for as  
long as they were employed.  They caused tremendous harm to the Iraqi  
people far beyond any need to corral Saddam.  DS itself was based on  
fabrication in large part and deserved to be opposed.

- samantha