[extropy-chat] RE: Singularitarian verses singularity

[Samantha Atkins]

I do not understand your contentions.  The constructs you mention as  
supposed irreconcilable (to humans) incompatibles are attempts to  
best understand and model important aspects of reality.  It is very  
unlikely that there is no intersecting understanding contained  
therein or that the union of the pairs of constructs does not contain  
truths not wholly available in either when narrowly conceived.    
Humans are quite capable of understanding this.  Many on these very  
lists have attempted some degree of reconciliation between precisely  
these constructs.   So we certainly conceive of the need.

How the heck is TELL (your caps) different from coercion?

- samantha


On Dec 22, 2005, at 2:16 PM, mike99 wrote:

> On Dec 21, 2005, at 2:52 PM, mike99 wrote:
>
>> What Samantha says here about the value -- and the dangers -- of
>> superhuman
>> intelligence reflects quite precisely what I believe on this
>> subject. Let me
>> add a few points to bolster this position:
>>
>> 1) If merely human intelligence, and any current or past forms of
>> human
>> organization, were sufficient to create the sort of world we desire
>> to live
>> in, then such a world would have already been created. Therefore, no
>> rearrangement of human relations (political, economic, etc.) and no
>> humanly-manageable system of development could be sufficient to
>> take us from
>> our current unsatisfactory state of life to the enhanced, long-lived,
>> healthy, wealthy and free life we desire. Greater than human
>> intelligence is
>> required.
>
> Samantha Atkins wrote:
>   This argument looks shaky.  Human intelligence in the form of total
> knowledge base is increasing.  Combining increasing levels of
> communication, storage and computational capabilities gives a larger
> set of possibilities than at any earlier time.   So it does not
> necessarily hold that the absence of the world we desire is proof
> that human level intelligence is incapable of achieving it.  While I
> agree with you conclusion this is not a good argument for that
> conclusion.
>
>
> Mike responds:
>   Our knowledge base certainly is increasing, but our capacity to  
> derive
> useful connections between all the bits and bytes is not keeping pace.
> Data mining has come a long way, but it still has a long way to go.
>
>   Assume, for the sake of argument, that hidden within all that  
> data is
> some extractable knowledge that, if used, would enable us to create  
> the
> kind of world we wish to live in (and you may define that pretty  
> much any
> way you like). By what algorithm could we ensure that such  
> knowledge is
> found within the data? I argue that we have no such algorithm.  
> Furthermore,
> I suspect that even if we did have such an algorithm, we would be so
> shocked at the results it turned up that we would discount them.
>
>   What would be shocking about these results? I suspect (but cannot by
> any means prove) that the results would indicate that building the  
> world
> we wish to live in would require us to combine seemingly  
> contradictory or
> mutually exclusive components. Like what? Like the contradictory  
> core claims
> of the libertarians and the socialists. Like the mutually exclusive  
> ideals
> of the evolutionary psychologists and the spiritual idealists.
>
>   Our experience of human politics shows that we are incapable of  
> combining
> these elements on our own. In fact, right now we cannot even  
> conceive of the
> possible need to do so. Yet I suspect that our inability to even  
> imagine
> combining these is precisely why we need an SAI to tell us that  
> this is what
> we must do. **Not compel us to do it** mind you -- no coercion --  
> but TELL
> us to do it. And to give us the benefit of its managerial ability  
> (including
> its ability to design and manage Drexlerian nanotech) to make this  
> possible
> outside of any political wrangling.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Michael LaTorra
>
> mike99 at lascruces.com
> mlatorra at nmsu.edu
> English Dept., New Mexico State University
>
> "For any man to abdicate an interest in science is to walk with  
> open eyes
> towards slavery."
> -- Jacob Bronowski
>
> "Experiences only look special from the inside of the system."
> -- Eugen Leitl
>
> "Man is a rope stretched between the animal and the Superman: a  
> rope across
> an abyss - a dangerous going across, a dangerous wayfaring, a  
> dangerous
> looking back, a dangerous shuddering and staying still."
> -- Friedrich Nietzsche
>
> Member:
> Board of Directors, World Transhumanist Association:  
> www.transhumanism.org
> Board of Directors, Institute for Ethics and Emerging Technologies:
> http://ieet.org/
> Extropy Institute: www.extropy.org
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> Society for Universal Immortalism: www.universalimmortalism.org
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>
>
>
>
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