Subject: Re: [extropy-chat] learning to appreciate pessimists

The Avantguardian avantguardian2020 at yahoo.com
Sun Jul 10 11:01:45 UTC 2005



--- Claribel <claribel at intermessage.com> wrote:

> 
> Claribel: This is my position exactly. I am both New
> Age and 
> ranshumanist  -- yes, some people do exist who
> embrace both metaphysics and 
> advanced science. I do not regard them as
> incompatible, if each is kept in 
> its proper sphere. I wonder if anyone here is
> familiar with the Integral 
> approach of Ken Wilber?
> (http://wilber.shambhala.com/)
In my opinion the relationship of metaphysics to
science is that metaphysics encompasses science and as
science grows, metaphysics shrinks. Perhaps someday
science will understand all and there will be no more
metaphysics left, but then again - maybe not.



 This philosophy 
> applies an evolutionary approach to all domains
> ranging from physical and 
> biological to social, mental and spiritual. In some
> ways, I think it's a 
> little too pat in drawing such equivalences, but I
> have found meaningful 
> insights in it.

I prefer to philosophize rather than to read about
someone else doing it, but I will check it out.

> Claribel: Another excellent point. The predominant
> New Age version of nature 
> is very sanitized. I've always considered it ironic
> that we should "walk 
> lightly on the earth" when it doesn't walk lightly
> on us (or on itself, 
> considering earthquakes and tsunamis.)

You are awakening to your own power. Stomp as deeply
into the earth as you want, and you will not stomp
deeper than 70 ton ultrasaurus did a few hundred
million years ago. Now you can no longer even see his
footprint, just a single shoulder-blade that got
lucky. You cannot hurt the earth any more than a
newborn can suckle too hard on its mother's teat.

> Claribel: Is this for drug experiments, or for
> pain-killers? I've often 
> wondered why experimenters don't just lobotomize the
> pain centers of their 
> animals' brains. Could you explain the usual
> procedures for controlling pain 
> and trauma in laboratory specimens?

The cocaine experiments are done in a different lab so
I do not know the details of what they are studying,
but I believe it has something to do with the effects
of chronic cocaine use on immunity and the ability to
resist infection with viruses. (like HIV, Herpes,
etc.)
In answer to your second question, if we do surgery of
any kind on the animals, we anesthetise them first. If
instead it is time to "harvest", we euthanise them
humanely by either breaking their necks very quickly,
which renders them unconscious immediately and
painlessly or by gassing them with CO2 likewise
painless and quick.

> 
> I will admit that, since I eat meat and perform
> ruthless genocide with 
> flypaper and ant traps (almost literal genocide,
> since I've destroyed 
> several breeding populations in my house), it would
> be hypocritical for me 
> to condemn the whole idea of sacrificing animals'
> lives in research.
> 

Eating meat is no longer genocide since the
agricultural revolution. Now it is the perptuation of
the species that such meat comes from. The chickens
are far better off than the condors. As far as my
sacrifice of mice or your war waged against the ants-
be at peace. For nothing is wasted in nature. The
worms, fungi, and other humble scavengers of the earth
would thank you for the bounty if they could.

Are you perchance a Wiccan?  

The Avantguardian 
is 
Stuart LaForge
alt email: stuart"AT"ucla.edu

"The surest sign of intelligent life in the universe is that they haven't attempted to contact us." 
-Bill Watterson

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