[extropy-chat] what can you show us?

[c c]

This is all true yet still it appears international
law is too undefined to do much with. Even domestic
legal process is vague-- few get a jury of their
actual peers, as they are supposed to. Judges aren't
usually impartial, they are chosen to uphold very
conservative community standards.

By 'scatter' I meant innucleate; enough of the regime
remains to pose a threat.



--- Robert Lindauer <robgobblin at aol.com> wrote:

> In american courts, points of fact are found out in
> court.
> 
> That's why we have discovery.
> 
> On the moral point, it's not clear that "scattering
> the iraqi regime" is 
> a justifiable pretense for slaughtering civilians
> wholesale and 
> launching two or more countries into an extended
> military quagmire with 
> daily deaths and mayhem ensuing.
> 
> Robbie
> 
> 
> beb_cc at yahoo.com wrote:
> 
> >Yes, there were certainly options other than the
> war,
> >on humanitarian grounds, but no better way to
> scatter
> >the Iraq regime. That line in court, along with no
> >evidence of deliberate malice beforehand in killing
> >civilians, would be enough to acquit the
> >administration.
> >
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >>Impeachment, not war crimes. There is a very
> >>different standard of law 
> >>well established here.
> >>
> >>    
> >>
> >>> Since technically Iraq was in violation
> >>>of agreements made previously with the UN, it
> would
> >>>have to be shown America invaded to entirely
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>subjugate
> >>    
> >>
> >>>Iraq and commit war crimes.
> >>>
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>It hasn't been determined by the UN security
> council
> >>that Iraq was 
> >>definitively in violation. In fact, we invaded
> over
> >>the objections of 
> >>the security council and the UN weapons
> inspectors.
> >>It turns out they 
> >>were right and we were lying, apparently
> >>intentionally.
> >>
> >>    
> >>
> >>>If you look backwards to
> >>>2003 so you can say, "now that we know America
> >>>couldn't win the peace, then overthrowing the
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>Baathist
> >>    
> >>
> >>>regime was futile, and the administration had to
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>know
> >>    
> >>
> >>>a sustained resistance to occupation was
> inevitable
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>&
> >>    
> >>
> >>>unbeatable", that is to say you are attempting to
> >>>prove the course of the war was inevitable and
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>America
> >>    
> >>
> >>>knew so in advance. If you can demonstrate this
> you
> >>>have a solid case.
> >>> 
> >>>
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>No, I'm claiming it was obvious then as now that
> war
> >>is bad and that 
> >>there were other options and that the American
> >>Presidential group 
> >>decided to go to war over the objections of the
> CIA,
> >>the UN and many, 
> >>many, many citizens apparently on trumped up
> >>"evidence" of Iraq's 
> >>capability of delivering weapons of mass
> destruction
> >>(such as having 
> >>rockets or nuclear or biological or chemical
> weapons
> >>ability). As a 
> >>result, hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's died
> >>(baathists and 
> >>non-bathists INDISCRIMINATELY) and more than a few
> >>thousand americans 
> >>have been killed or maimed. That there were other
> >>options was obvious 
> >>and continues to be obvious. That this was a bad
> >>choice was obvious then 
> >>and continues to be obvious now.
> >>
> >>This point was made at length, even in this forum,
> >>BEFORE the war 
> >>attempt. It was made strongly in the UN, strongly
> by
> >>military advisors 
> >>to Bush who were subsequently fired, and strongly
> by
> >>American 
> >>Intelligence agents who were subsequently
> illegally
> >>"outed" by someone 
> >>in the White House apparently as retalliation.
> >>
> >>How is any of this controversial in the slightest?
> >>
> >>Robbie
> >>
> >>    
> >>
> >>>--- Robert Lindauer <robgobblin at aol.com> wrote:
> >>> 
> >>>
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>>>What evidence of wrongness are you looking for
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>other
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>than piles of dead 
> >>>>bodies?  Why aren't they sufficient?
> >>>>   
> >>>>
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>       
> >>>      
> >>>
>
>>____________________________________________________
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> >>
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> >>    
> >>
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> >>>      
> >>>
>
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> >>    
> >>
> >>> 
> >>>
> >>>      
> >>>
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> >>
> >>    
> >>
>
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> >  
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >        
>
>____________________________________________________
> 
=== message truncated ===



		
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