[extropy-chat] Why I am No Longer a Libertarian Either...

[Robert Lindauer]

Mike Lorrey wrote:

>--- The Avantguardian <avantguardian2020 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>  
>
>> Is a name brand really worth twice as
>>much as a generic? 
>>    
>>
>
>Of course it is.
>  
>

"There is a sucker, born every minute."

>The market always finds proper
>value.
>

Myth of pretending-to-be-free-market-capitalism #1 - "the market finds 
proper value".

> Claims that Bill Gates or Steve Ballmer isn't worth what they
>are paid, or Jobs, or any other highly paid CEO are based on
>puritanical protestant prejudices against ostentatiousness and
>inaccurate memes that claim that one man is worth any other.
>  
>

Or perhapse actual thievery, fraud and anti-competetive practices.  
Especially in the cases of Jobs, Gates and Balmer, all of whom are 
convicted by extension by the acts of their companies.

>Any economist can tell you that no two workers are worth the same pay
>for the same job, and there is no market rule limiting CEO pay as a
>proportion of avg worker pay.
>

Not "any economist", just some economists spew this kind of crap.

> Workers at all levels get paid what they
>are worth, with few exceptions (typically when government and unions
>enforce non-market pay scales).
>  
>

If workers were paid what they were worth, there'd be no profit to be 
made in capitalism.

>>The CEO argubly
>>contributes the least to the productivity of a
>>company...
>>    
>>
>
>Then why aren't you one of them, if you know all that needs to be done?
>The fact you aren't one of them proves your statement to be bullshit.
>  
>
As someone who has been CEO of a company (my own), it's not true that in 
sole proprietorships that the CEO does nothing.  On the other hand your 
argument being purely ad hominem is of no value whatever.


>>>Government is clearly a system for screwing the
>>>poor.
>>>      
>>>
>>Yes, but it is not supposed to be. 
>>    
>>
>
>Says who? Some piece of paper? They stopped listening to that a long
>time ago, and only cite it today when it serves their own benefit
>  
>
See Lorrey, you're starting to get it.  Now you just have to recognize 
the essential relationship between economic systems and governments and 
you'll be able to make some useful and accurate judgements.

>>Where in "establish
>>justice, ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the
>>common defense, and secure the blessings of liberty"
>>is there any mention of screwing the poor? If it has
>>become a system for screwing the poor, it is only
>>because we either lack the clarity of our forefathers
>>or delibrately thwart their vision, all the while
>>paying lip service to their memories. 
>>    
>>
>
>Because all those who claim to be defenders of liberty either are out
>to defend their own liberty at the expense of others, or are too
>chickenshit to recognise that the time for revolution has been here for
>a while.
>  
>

Viva la revolution!  But you're going to have to come up with a better 
impetus for revolution than protecting the property of the wealthy and 
defending CEO's if you want to make any headway with your average Joe 
who actually wants a revolution.  CEO's don't want revolutions, in 
general, chaos makes for hard business decisions and risk.  The labor 
movement recognized the need for revolution a coupla hundred years ago, 
where have you been all this time?

>Today, any kid with a rifle can take out an asshole in government if he
>has the gumption to do so. Enough people know their rights, but are
>deluded by the media (like the Church of old did) into thinking they
>are still free. The people who get screwed do so because they let
>themselves get screwed.
>  
>
It's illegal in the US anyway to even suggest killing an elected member 
of the government, especially a president.

I'm inclined to agree with this sentiment though, people get screwed 
because they let themselves get screwed- that is to say people are too 
nice.  When being screwed by their local capitalist, people should 
simply take them out back and off-em?  Oooh, but the police might come 
and get them.  Hmm, what should they do?  Go find a different job?  But 
there's corporate collusion, labor-price-fixing, rent to pay and mouths 
to feed.  Go start your own busines?  With what money? 

Oligarchical capitalism is systematically repressive, sufficient for 
keeping your average Joe and Mary in line.  Alive enough to work until 
they're no longer valuable.

Robbie Lindauer