[extropy-chat] Why I am No Longer a Libertarian Either...

Al Brooks kerry_prez at yahoo.com
Wed Jul 27 02:53:55 UTC 2005


I just wonder if a liberal arts degree is worth the
cost anymore. For the price parents are paying today
for higher ed they can set their children up in
business, buy them real estate, or whatever. And why
would anyone want to send their children to
alternative schools? When alternative schools first
began they actually were an alternative, now they are
commercial alternative schools-- an oxymoron. 


 
> Well it depends on what you are trusting them to do
> or
> not to do. Most intellectuals can be trusted not to
> rob you at gun point. Whereas intellectuals are
> humans
> with all the trappings of self-interest, their
> machinations for personal gain would be much more
> likely to be of a subtle almost invisible nature.
> Moreover intellectuals tend to want to give back to
> society more than typical thugs and politicians as
> they are more aware of interdependence of people at
> all levels of society. Moreover, higher awareness of
> suffering in the world breeds higher levels of
> personal responsibility, if of course the
> intellectual
> is not in a self-imposed state of denial of reality.
> Would that necessarily make intellectuals better
> leaders than thugs with guns? I don't know but you
> would think that millions of years of getting
> pounded
> on by the overgrown alpha-monkeys of the world would
> make people willing to try something different for a
> change.   
> 
> > Would
> > it be reasonable to say around 80% of professors
> are
> > in it mostly for the salary and benefits?
> 
> I doubt it. It is way too demanding a process to
> become a tenured faculty professor to be worth it
> for
> salary alone. Aside from the fact that it takes many
> years of schooling, underpaid training positions,
> and
> utterly ridiculous demands on ones time, less than 1
> in 5 in biological research make it to such a level.
> Even after one becomes a tenured professor, that
> only
> guarantees a base salary of about $100k but can be
> doubled if one is of sufficient merit to win sizable
> grants. You really have to love the actual science
> to
> even consider putting yourself through THAT grueling
> gauntlet. If you want to be rich, go to law school
> or
> start your own business. If you want to gamble on
> being able to live in relative comfort, while you
> manufacture "truth", than become a professor.
> 
> 
> > I
> > certainly
> > don't want to criticize the military-industrial
> > complex if most intellectuals (professors at the
> > top)
> > are no more trustworthy.
> 
> Well aside from the fact that there are some
> professors that are funded by the
> military-industrial
> complex, I would say that as a rule, the science
> professor's whole stock in trade is trustworthiness
> and truth. After all, if some schmoe on the other
> side
> of the world can't follow your instructions and
> duplicate your results, then you will be weeded out
> of
> the system. Because of this, I think that at least
> in
> a professional sense, intellectuals in the sciences
> hold truth in higher regard than the average
> business
> executive. I think that even a "bad" professor is
> more
> trustworthy than a "good" politician.  
>  
> >   I hesitate to discuss the illegal immigration
> > issue.
> >  Mexican families are now so plugged into America
> > there is no chance of consensus to close the
> border
> > to
> > illegals, unless we get another big attack in the
> > U.S.
> >  Liberal friends wont discuss it at all, they clam
> > up.
> 
> Where do you live? In southern-california I have
> noticed that liberals and conservatives strongly
> agree
> that illegal immigration is a problem. Illegals use
> public facilities paid for by tax-payers while they
> themselves do not pay taxes. Here it has gotten to
> the
> point that even communists feel the need to do
> something about it. The difference lies in who they
> blame. The liberals blame the government and the
> conservatives blame the illegal-immigrants.
> 
> > Some wont even admit terrorism exists. They don't
> > argue, they merely scoff, "terrorism? what
> > terrorism?"; the most they will say is America
> wont
> > admit what it did in the past to the Mideast. then
> > they change the subject & refuse to be drawn out.
> 
> Well you liberal friends should ride the buses in
> Jerusalem for a few months and then try to deny the
> existense of "terrorism". But hell "terrorism" is
> just
> a label any ways. Violent thugs are violent thugs no
> matter what you label them. You kill one person and
> you are a muderer. You kill 100 people and you are a
> terrorist. You kill 10,000 men and you are king,
> dictator, or president. 
> 
> 
> 
> The Avantguardian 
> is 
> Stuart LaForge
> alt email: stuart"AT"ucla.edu
> 
> "The surest sign of intelligent life in the universe
> is that they haven't attempted to contact us." 
> -Bill Watterson
> 
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