[extropy-chat] Re: Iraq and legality again

[Mike Lorrey]

--- John K Clark <jonkc at att.net> wrote:

> "Samantha Atkins" <sjatkins at mac.com>
> 
> >  If law becomes "mythical and magical"
> >  or worse then we are lost.
> 
> Like it or not it's a fact of life that if the lawmaker is weak and
> has no power of enforcement then its "law" is not a law at all, it
> is a suggestion. I'm not saying that is good, I'm saying that's the
> way things are.  I just wish the early opponents of the war had not
> wasted their time droning on and on about international law,
> illegality and general silliness and instead focused on the real
> flaws of the war idea; there were no WMD and the Iraqi people will
> hate us if we invade. If they had done that then people like me
> might not have been fooled and given (halfhearted) support for the
> war.  I mean, if WMD had been found and if the Iraqi people had
> thrown flowers at American soldiers instead of hand grenades would
> you really care if some pinhead in Brussels said it was illegal?
> 
> Samantha I must admit that before the Iraqi war started and you were
> 100% against it and I was 50% for it events have proven that you were
> 100% right, and I was 50% wrong. To this day I think you were right
> for the wrong reason but that's not important, the important thing
> is that you were right.
> Oh well.., at least I was right about Afghanistan.

Not quite. Samantha claimed we would suffer 100,000 casualties in Iraq
(or 100,000 civilian casualties, or something along those lines), which
we are still nowhere near reaching 27 months later. The invasion itself
cost 150 civilian lives, and as we were calculating the other day, the
total civilian lives lost (20k according to the UN) is still markedly
less than the number of people who were being killed directly or
indirectly by Saddam and his regime prior to the war (~80k-100k per
year).

It is unfortunate that Bush was wrong about the WMD wrt Iraq (or,
rather, that he has failed to be proven right, which is a different
standard, given the evidence of secret Iraqi shipments to Syria in the
days before the invasion). However, as I said before, if the result is
a domino effect of democratization and individual liberty in the middle
east, I don't care whether Saddam had WMD or not: he knew how to make
them, had the expertise and will to do so, and the moment the world
chose to end sanctions with him still in power, he'd be back making
them en masse, and anyone who thinks differently is naively foolish.

There was an interesting article in GQ on Saddam's conversations with
his guards, who he seems to get along with well (he loves Rasin Bran
and Doritos). He still considers himself President and that he will be
returned to power when the US leaves the country. Megalomania like that
tells its own story.

> > The biggest brute force rules
> 
> The biggest brute ALWAYS rules, that is to say he makes the rules,
> that is to say he makes the laws, and I'm talking about true laws not
> suggestions.

International law isn't suggestion, it is contract. If parties to a
contract refuse to enforce its provisions (i.e. the UN enforcing a
cease fire agreement with Saddam, the UN enforcing its charter against
the US, etc) then it really carries very little weight, and less weight
over time the less it is enforced. Considering the first gulf war is
the first time the UN (and the only time, really) has functioned as it
was designed, it really is a joke and lacking in moral authority.

> Of course some brute are kinder than others, and I must say as brutes
> go America must be in the top 5 percentile.

A very good point that some people either don't believe or don't want
to believe.

Mike Lorrey
Vice-Chair, 2nd District, Libertarian Party of NH
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom.
It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."
                                      -William Pitt (1759-1806) 
Blog: http://intlib.blogspot.com


		
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