[extropy-chat] Qualia Bet.

[Samantha Atkins]

On Nov 29, 2005, at 2:38 PM, gts wrote:

> On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 16:22:17 -0500, Brent Allsop  
> <allsop at extropy.org> wrote:
>
>
>
>> Yes, I think we are very much in agreement with our philosophies.
>>
>> But please don't say phenomenal properties are outside of "the sum  
>> of all
>> possible scientific knowledge" as this is clearly not true.
>>
>
> I am referring to objective intellectual knowledge, not applied  
> science or technology.

huh?  Please clarify the distinction you are attempting to make.

>
>
>> It's just that phenomenal properties cannot be adequately  
>> represented or
>> communicated via abstract system based purely on causal properties.
>>
>
> Right, we don't disagree.
>
> You've been wrongly criticized for saying these properties are non- 
> causal. What you really mean is that direct knowledge of phenomenal  
> properties (the actual first-hand experience of qualia) cannot be  
> obtained via abstract science about causes and effects.
>

If so then the discussion is silly.  I can't describe love by an  
abstract discussion of causes and effects.  So what?   That doesn't  
make being able to experience such in any way outside science or  
causality or proof of some other way of knowing or some argument for  
metaphysical duality.

- samantha