[extropy-chat] Human Machinations

[Keith Henson]

At 10:38 PM 2/15/2006 +0000, Dirk wrote:


>On 2/15/06, Keith Henson <<mailto:hkhenson at rogers.com>hkhenson at rogers.com> 
>wrote:
>>At 03:46 PM 2/13/2006 +0000, Dirk wrote:
>>
>>
>> >On 2/11/06, Keith Henson 
>> <<mailto:hkhenson at rogers.com><mailto:hkhenson at rogers.com>hkhenson at rogers.com>
>> >wrote:

snip

>>Wrong level.  A population of people possessed of xenophobic memes is on
>>the causal path to war, but isn't the root cause.  People can *always* find
>
>And which population is that? From here it seems to be the USA

You won't get an argument against that from me, but I am talking about a 
human universal.

There are two way to get into a war going right back to the Stone 
Age.  Most obvious is to be attacked.  The other way is for xenophobic 
(dehumanizing) memes to build up in the population.  When "population" was 
a band where the maximum size in a really productive ecosystem was roughly 
100 people the memes served to synch the warriors into a mob attack on 
neighbors.

Now the question is what causes the memes leading to wars to build up?

>>some stupid ideological reason to fight, but they don't do so all the
>>time.  What causes xenophobic memes to become more common at some times
>>than at others?
>>
>>Related question.  Why did support for the IRA eventually die out?
>
>A number of reasons
>a) They could not win a military victory. Britain was prepared to fight 
>them relentlessly for 30+ years
>b) Demographics suggest that there will eventually be a Catholic (and 
>presumably Nationalist) majority in NI before too long, with a 
>consequential vote for unification.
>c) They got everything they asked for *except* unification (see b)
>d) Eire ceased to be a rabid theocracy and hence became more attractive to 
>Protestants
>e) Eire ceased to be one of the most economically backward nations in 
>Europe and hence became more attractive to Protestants

Of these point, a has not stopped other groups who have been fighting as 
long or longer.  I don't think point b is true now for NI.  I don't 
think  you can make a case that humans would have been sensitive to long 
range demographics trends any time in their history.  Certainly the 
Palestinians are a counter example.

Points d and e are closer.  The reason both parts of Ireland became an 
economic success story is that a generation ago there was a large drop over 
a few years in the birth rate.  I don't know if that was effect or cause of 
the shift away from a rabid theocracy.  Same thing happened in other 
places.  But in any case, with population growth below economic growth, 
what happens?

And how do you map that into Stone Age bands and tribes?

Keith Henson

PS.  Warning, I am leading you into a model that is incredibly simple, 
logical and miserably depressing.