Fwd: [extropy-chat] The Fifth Singularity and benefits of murder

Rafal Smigrodzki rafal.smigrodzki at gmail.com
Tue Jan 10 05:46:24 UTC 2006

I am forwarding a post which was accidentally sent offlist.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Rafal Smigrodzki <rafal.smigrodzki at gmail.com>
Date: Jan 9, 2006 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: [extropy-chat] The Fifth Singularity and benefits of murder
To: The Avantguardian <avantguardian2020 at yahoo.com>

On 1/9/06, The Avantguardian <avantguardian2020 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> --- Rafal Smigrodzki <rafal.smigrodzki at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > The reasoning explaining why the ability to kill and
> > devour is the
> > basis for all eukaryotic complexity is really worth
> > reading, as is the
> > whole book.
> Interesting perspective, Rafal, but let us not forget
> that metaphyta, otherwise known as the plant kingdom,
> are eukaryotes as well. And if it weren't for them,
> the "killers" could not use their mitochondria to
> breath. I think that chloroplasts are therefore
> probably every bit as important as mitochondria in the
> shaping of eukaryotic complexity.

### Oxygen in the air, as you correctly point out, is the reason why
the alpha-proteobacteria that gave rise to mitochondria evolved in the
first place. However, plants are not the initial source of oxygen - it
was first produced in large quantities by cyanobacteria two billion
years ago, a billion years ago before the first tiny leaves oriented
to the sun. Plants are nothing but the progeny of ruthless,
eykaryotic, mitochondria-containing predators who learned to be nice
only after eating a cyanobacterium and enslaving it to work for them.
So, yes, the chloroplast that came from the cyanobacterium is
enormously important for the history of life, but it was not
responsible for the generation of eukaryotic complexity.

In the darknes of their inner self plants are predators, too

 Furthermore as much
> eukaryotic complexity is derived from the need NOT to
> be killed and eaten as is derived from the need to
> kill and eat. The gazelle runs to escape the cheetah
> and the cheetah runs to escape starvation. Both run to
> survive.

### Yes, some of the elaborations on the theme are less
blood-spattered than others but in the eukatyotic beginning, there was


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