[extropy-chat] Cryonics and uploading

Heartland velvethum at hotmail.com
Tue Jan 31 21:20:15 UTC 2006

> "Heartland" <velvethum at hotmail.com>

>> If both of them share the same subjective experience only means just that
>> and nothing else.
> Only? ONLY! Having your subjective experience continue is the entire point
> of immortality. What more could you want?

But you need to realize at some point that your current subjective 
experience would NOT transfer to your copy.

Of course, the copy would "feel" that the original subjective experience has 
been transferred successfully. However, the point is that dead original 

Don't expect your subjective experience you carry now to magically continue 
on a destructively uploaded copy. Why? Because each mind (that produces that 
subjective experience) carves out separate and verifiably unique trajectory 
in space-time from any other mind, and unless you merge two minds by 
*physically* connecting them, you can't merge two minds (resulting in the 
same instance of subjective experience) by merely making both brain 
structures the same. That's impossible.

Just because you made a thing x at point p1 and time t1 structurally the 
same as another thing x at point p2 and time t2 doesn't make a thing x at 
point p1 and time t1 automatically appear at p2 and t2. Think about it.

>> I only said that recycling of atoms is a natural occurrence of Moravec
>> transfer, that's all. It would be  perfectly legal to perform Moravec
>> transfer by means of nanomachines. It's
>> the destructive uploading that is the problem.
> I see no fundamental difference between what you call "Moravec transfer" 
> and
> "destructive uploading", one just happens a little faster than the other.

One is gradual which doesn't destroy or alter the mind process that produces 
subjective experience. The other one obliterates it.

> Now I'm sure you won't use the word "soul" to describe it, not on the
> Extropian list you won't, you'll dream up some euphemism for it, but I 
> know
> what you're talking about. And shit by any other name would stink as bad.
>  John K Clark

Not soul, but life. There is such a thing as life while the concept of soul 
is just silly. The reason you bring up soul is not that I'm trying to 
smuggle the concept of soul here, but that the whole point of why two 
instances of the same subjective experience are not the same somehow eludes 
you and you resort to the next best thing that you understand, the soul. I 
think you just need to think about this more deeply.


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