[extropy-chat] it had to happen...

[kevinfreels.com]

I've been quite busy researching the role of religion in humanity lately and haven't had time to visit. I decided to drop in and I see a weird debate on astrology? 
What is happening here? Anne, is it not painfully obvious that two people born at the same time can have wildly varying characteristics and that just as many people born far apart in date can be similar? Can astrology even work considering human genetics and our ability to learn new behavior patterns and the way our personalities change throughout our lives? Even assuming that you could group behaviours by date ranges, how is that any different than recognizing the occasional pattern in a string of random numbers? You can't use it to predict and that's what astrology claims to be able to do. What kind of outside force could force people into such groups that relies on the relative positions of the earth, sun, moon, and stars? Are we really entertaining such topics at the moment? 



  From: Anne-Marie Taylor 
  To: ExI chat list 
  Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 5:49 PM
  Subject: Re: [extropy-chat] it had to happen...


  Samantha Atkins wrote:
  That is not just "strange". It borders on willfully stupid. 
  Astrology has been tested utterly flunked the test over 
  and over again.

  Anna writes:
  What parts of astrology are you talking about?
  I would like to mention links when you powerfully declare
  something as stupid.

  Samantha wrote: 
  If you wanted to learn characteristics then you would study human 
  beings, psychology, evolutionary psychology and so on. 

  Anna writes:
  Yes, thanks for the insight, I studied psychology in University,
  maybe I wasn't paying enough attention:)

  Samantha asks:
  Why would you think that clumps of similar characteristics get 
  handed out based on your birth location and time?

  Anna answers:
  Based on observation.  
  I didn't mention location.  
  Why couldn't their be a correlation between the time you 
  are born and human characteristics? It seems pretty acurate to 
  say that their are only so many charactestics humans can have.  
  Why wouldn't their be a way to compute them?  
  If the time you are born is a starting point *Leo, born in August*
  Why wouldn't it be likely that Leo's are born with certain 
  characteristics?  
  If i've observed enough correlation between characteristics 
  of Leo and characterists of Pisces, how are you contemplating
  telling me my idea is stupid with no just answer but to tell me 
  that it's bogus or false?

  Samantha wrote:
  You wouldn't try to draw some bogus correlation against the
  position of certain groups of stars as seen from earth. 

  Anna writes:
  Yes Samantha, I know your feelings on pseudoscience.
  Yet at the same time, I never mentioned anything about
  stars, location, horoscopes or any other meaning associated
  with Astrology except the time you are born.
  If you have any great ideas on how an AI is going to distinguish
  between human characteristics I would like to hear them.

  Anna:)


  Samantha Atkins <sjatkins at mac.com> wrote:

    On Jul 17, 2006, at 10:50 AM, Anne-Marie Taylor wrote:

    > Since you brought it up:)
    > This is way out there, I know. But what the heck, i'm known
    > now to do and say strange things:)
    >
    > I was wondering if astrology could help in building AI.
    > Don't get me wrong, I was looking at it from the point of view
    > of catagorizing certain charactestics based on the time frame
    > of when your born.

    That is not just "strange". It borders on willfully stupid. 
    Astrology has been tested utterly flunked the test over and over again.

    >
    > I am a strong believer in astrology based on the idea that people
    > born at a certain times have similar characterics (Again, from a point
    > of view of the Blue Man Theory).
    > This can't be proven, I know, it's just my experiences and
    > observations that have led me to be curious.
    >

    It has been proven bogus.

    >
    > Could Astrology just be a way for humans to learn about
    > characterics?
    >

    If you wanted to learn characteristics then you would study human 
    beings, psychology, evolutionary psychology and so on. You wouldn't 
    try to draw some bogus correlation against the position of certain 
    groups of stars as seen from earth. Why would you think that clumps 
    of similar characteristics get handed out based on your birth 
    location and time?


    >
    > It would seem ludicrious to believe that human characterics are
    > unique per individual therefore there must be a way compute it.
    > How can something that's been around that long have no meaning
    > or reason?

    You can have plenty of "meaning or reason" without making up bizarre 
    theories like astrology or taking up such nonsense. Just because 
    something has been around for a long time doesn't mean it has 
    "meaning or reason". There are explanations for much of human nature 
    and human characteristics though.

    - samantha

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