[extropy-chat] Sasha is alive!

Brent Allsop brent.allsop at comcast.net
Wed Jan 3 04:37:14 UTC 2007


I've been following this thread very closely, as it is a favorite topic of
mine.  I've been surprised that I haven't seen this topic covered more in
groups like this.  You guys all know much more about this kind of stuff than
I do, and I really hunger for and appreciate all this new information!

It looks like there is quite a large set of theories starting to form about
what will and will not be possible - and the rational as to why.  But there
is clearly a lot of very "strong" POV on this topic that is hard to
quantitatively measure right?

Giulio, I read your article on Engineering Transcendance and agree with most
everything you say.  In your article you talk about "strong" thinking that
might inspire others that are more traditionally religious that might need
something more than what we traditional transhumanists seem to need.  I am
very happy to hear someone finally say something like this and have always
believed that this is very important, and that there are a lot of people
that need "saving", but there hasn't been what they require to get that

You mentioned writing a book on this topic.  I think that would be great,
but I also think there is something else that would help even more.

Have you followed the threads to this group about the canonizer.com project
I have been working for the past year?  It is intended to be a wiki that
handles POV information.  There is a limited prototype running on
test.canonizer.com, but don't expect much since this is the development
version being worked on and will often be down or not completely functioning
as we continue development.

If you wrote a book on the topic of the possibility of resurrection, it
would simply be yet another single persons POV on this very controversial
issue.  At best you might be able to include something like a "sympathetic"
expression of points of view that are different than your own.  Wouldn't it
be much more powerful and accepted by everyone if there were some kind of
collaboratively developed "topic" about this were all points of view could
be adequately expressed, developed, and quantitatively tallied?

Here is one possible POV structure layout we could start with on such a
topic in the Canonizer:

Topic name: Will there be any resurrection?
	1. Yes
		a. Traditional Religious resurrection by God.

		b. Technological Resurrection.
			i. Only if cryonically preserved.
			ii. It is likely some way or another if we never
give up.
	2. No

Each of these lines would be the "one line description" of various POV
statements on this controversial issue.  These lines could change in any
way, and only represent one of many possible general structures.  Of course
there could be infinite amount of substructure representing the many obvious
variations to these particular "camps" and so on.

Each such statement would be an wiki developed encyclopedic summary of the
beliefs of the people in a particular POV "camp" on this topic.  It would
all be developed collaboratively, and as new people joined various camps,
they could bring new information, evidence, reasoning and so on - so that
the state of the art of all POV on this topic could be represented.  If
people's POV was already represented by an existing "camp" they could join
that camp, or a more precise sub camp, and help that POV along in its
development.  In this way we could see precisely who believed in which POV
and how all of our beliefs grow and progress.

Eventually I hope to have a "canonization" process which will allow people
to sort and filter this kind of structure so people can have a tool to help
them select the kind of people they most respect and trust, and see which
POV is most valid and currently most accepted by the people they choose to
trust the most.

You talk about a religion.  But of course for any religion, there must also
be recognized "doctrine", and for some there must even be very strong
"dogma".  I am proposing that such a POV Wiki, could be the way that any
such religion produce and determine what its doctrine and/or dogma is.

Most of us might accept that the most "accepted" camp is the very strong and
hopeful "dogma" that is currently guiding us in life.  And most of us could
also accept that, in a weak and humble way, we might discover that there is
a better way to what it is we really hope for and so on.

So, does anyone else think such a POV wiki would help with the development
and expression of these kinds of beliefs like I do and help us push forward
a much broader transhumanist movement?  I'd sure like to have a more formal
way to add my "amen" in agreement to what many of you are saying about what
might be possible.

Brent Allsop

-----Original Message-----
From: extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org
[mailto:extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org] On Behalf Of Samantha Atkins
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 4:54 PM
To: ben at goertzel.org; ExI chat list
Subject: Re: [extropy-chat] Sasha is alive!

On Jan 1, 2007, at 2:03 PM, Ben Goertzel wrote:

> An implication would be that essentially full information about Sasha
> Chislenko is contained in the universe, encoded in the
> perturbation-patterns of various particles that are now distributed
> all over the place.
> A rather large amount of physical and computational effort would be
> required to gather this information and reconstitute Sasha from it,
> but "in principle" it should be possible if quantum theory and the
> decoherence interpretation are correct.

Regardless of the amount of computational and physical resources  
available there is no way to build a Sasha-bit detector with which to  
sort all this information without already having most of the Sasha  
relevant information.

- samantha

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