[extropy-chat] ethical issues with children

spike spike66 at comcast.net
Sun Jan 21 03:49:26 UTC 2007

> -----Original Message-----
> From: extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org [mailto:extropy-chat-
> bounces at lists.extropy.org] On Behalf Of Anders Sandberg
> "vogue memories", I guess those are Natasha's memories of her career as a
> supermodel? :-)

{8^D  haaaahahahahahahaaaa, ja, I love it when a typo makes a new word which
alters the meaning of the sentence.  Vogue memories.  Was there at one time
a magazine by the name Vogue?  Was it about fashion or some such thing?  Is
it still in existence?  I haven't seen it in years.  Perhaps I hang out with
the wrong crowd.

> spike wrote:
> > My question was extremely open ended;
> > Natasha's heart might indeed be in the south of France.
> Yes, I have discovered that my heart seem to have been in England all this
> time (it was last observed climbing around on the parapet of one of the
> nearby cathedrals; like previous times it escaped capture)...

Anders do be careful while climbing around on parapets, and with whomever it
was attempting to capture your heart.

> > With respect to Mike's question about how having a baby has changed my
> > perspective on privacy...
> Interesting argument. One might argue that before a certain age children
> do not have a concept or need for privacy, so they could be forced to live
> in their parents transparent life...

Yes but of course the internet never forgets.

> ... But
> if you reared your child in a transparent way, would he then want privacy
> when he got old enough? It is an interesting question...

I don't even know how to guess.  Anyone have any data on that?  I was raised
with less transparency than average I think.  Now I am more comfortable with
transparency than most.

> ... Ah, kids are such ethical problems! Anders Sandberg

Oh my yes.  More ethical dilemmas have presented themselves in his first
half year than in my previous 20.  For instance, I find myself thinking
early and often about what values I should instill in him.  This is a
reprise of a thread from several years ago.

I am 45 years senior to my son.  The world changed so much in those 45 years
that most of the values with which I was raised are now wildly
inappropriate.  For instance, I was told that the two most important things
for a boy to learn are auto mechanics and self defense.  The mechanics have
come in most handy over the years, but this skill is far from the most
important.  Self defense is a skill that has proven practically useless.  In
young Isaac's future, neither of these will likely be worthwhile at all.

Neither my parents nor my grandparents ever taught me anything about
managing wealth.  This is understandable, since in the days when I was
learning values, they had very little.  Managing money is probably the most
important skill I can teach my son.  Unfortunately I know very little about
that subject.

Another example: get odd jobs, work hard etc.  This seemed right at the
time, but the youthful time I spent working minimum wage jobs for a pittance
is worse than lost, for on at least one of those jobs I accumulated injuries
that are with me to this day.

Another example: I was taught to take good care of my toys.  Now toys have
become so cheap the local Salvation Army will not even take them unless they
are new in the original shrink wrap.  Toys are a major landfill problem.
Production techniques and materials science have given us a vision of things
to come: really good toys are cheap enough that they quickly fill the entire
space in my house, very expensive space I might add.  I cannot put toys
away, for there is no away in my modest abode.  All the aways are already
crammed full.  So don't worry Isaac about taking care of your toys.  But do
develop a fondness for *small* toys.


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