[ExI] "Up against the warming zealots"...hmmm

Sondre Bjellås sondre-list at bjellas.com
Tue Jul 24 07:42:56 UTC 2007

Once again I just want to say that we have not had as bad summer in 150
years (south Norway). This means our growing season is very much reduced.
Strawberries which are usually very good at this time, taste like sand and
.. eeh .. don't want to eat any more, it's crap.

Norway is normally very good at producing great quality food that has little
pesticide, but if this weather keeps up I would think we will be required to
import more low-grade quality food that has way to much pesticide and
antibiotics. Not a good situation....


"Norway has never licensed their use in food animals, and both countries
have reported low trends--similar to Australia's--in
fluoroquinolone-resistant Campylobacter infecting humans."

1. There is no doubt that global warming is real.
2. There is no real evidence that human waste has any effect on it.
3. Most people would say change is bad, but I say it's good.

My 50 cents :)

-----Original Message-----
From: extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org
[mailto:extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org] On Behalf Of spike
Sent: 24. juli 2007 06:27
To: 'ExI chat list'
Subject: Re: [ExI] "Up against the warming zealots"...hmmm

> bounces at lists.extropy.org] On Behalf Of Emlyn
> However, there seems to be somewhat of a memeplex out there that
> includes not only modern green-consciousness, but also anti
> "progress", anti science and anti rational positions. Admitedly this
> is just conjecture on my part, but I feel like there's an
> anti-humanism that goes with the green movement, an assumption that
> things we do to improve the lot of humans through scientific
> investigation are immediately suspect, a kind of evil... Emlyn

Astute observations all.

Emlyn, the discussion on this topic seems to center around two questions:

1. Is global warming real?
2. Is it human made?

But this discussion ignores a third question, or rather assumes an answer:

3. Is global warming good?

Previously I have argued that in many ways it is good, but now I realize
this is very much an understatement.  If human population grows the way I
expect it will, global warming might be our salvation, it might save our
species.  We are after all a warm climate species, Africans that have
managed to spread everywhere.  

One of the side effects of global warming upon which most agree is longer
growing seasons.  We can easily envision a wetter planet where plants grow
better because of more CO2 in the air.  If we can imagine Earth with 30 to
50 billion inhabitants in place of our current paltry 6 to 7 billion, we
will desperately need to put all the available land to work making food for
all those humans.

As Emlyn as observed, progress is often seen as a kind of evil.  I see it as
a kind of righteousness.  The current exclusive focus on the down side of
global warming is a kind of evil.  

Consider for instance the losers in the global warming deal: penguins and
polar bears.  If human population does what I expect, these beasts would
long since have been devoured before the last ice disappears.  Or if not
devoured, then slain because they are carnivorous, and eat the same things
we eat, and are therefore competitors for a limited food supply.  

If we look at those humans that live in low lying countries such as
Bangladesh, we must consider the fact that as human populations grow, these
countries would need to import massive amounts of food anyway, so longer
growing seasons help them too.  Living elsewhere of course.

Regarding the first two questions above, we could construct orthogonal axes
dividing a thought-plane into quadrants.  If we add the third question on
another orthogonal axis, we divide space into octants.  I am definitely in
the half of space that is cheering for global warming.  As to the first two
questions, I am not sure they are true, but in both cases, I certainly hope


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