nvitamore at austin.rr.com
nvitamore at austin.rr.com
Tue Oct 9 23:03:06 UTC 2007
At 10:01 AM 10/9/2007, Keith wrote:
>At 12:26 AM 10/9/2007, James Clement wrote:
> >If the brain can be looked upon as a combination of interconnected
> >running many programs and subroutines, most of which are inherited from
> >reptile, mammal, and primate ancestors, what can we do to override or
> >reprogram these?
>This a topic of great interest to me. The inherited reptilian program is
>dangerous in many environments.
"Our line parted ways with the reptiles a *long* time
My line has its amygdalae.
"Psychological traits that were not conducive to reproductive
success in the last few million years when our ancestors lived as
hunter gatherers would have been bred out of the line. (Keeping in
mind 'inclusive fitness.')"
>One decidedly noticeable environment is
>when humans interface with machines, especially automobiles. If you
>sharpen your focus onto the body language and facial expression of drivers,
>it is exceedingly apparent that they perform like tightly wound aggressors
>vying for position, as if the urgency of their need entitles them to make
>abrupt and savage behavior.
"I have not noticed this, but I seldom concentrate on the drivers
inside. It has been my experience that most of the time people are
fairly cooperative in traffic. There may be wide variations
depending on the geographic location though. But given that your
observations and inferences of the internal state of drivers are
correct, how was it that genes that contributed to this behavior
contributed to reproductive success in the lives of our ancestors?"
I don't know, genetics is not my expertise. But it's competitive
aggression to get ahead of the other guy for getting the food or survival.
Getting ahead is not determined by the destination but more from the
physical relationship of position and speed.
I watch behaviors in a lot of environments. Airports are good too -
watching how people come and go and the relationships of people getting on
and off planes, etc. Grocery stores are also quite fascinating, especially
in different countries and cultures. (Communications / media designers
tend to do this as part of our visual narrative.)
>Of course it is necessary to have internal and external warning systems but
>I think that humanity cannot overcome many of our current foibles unless
>and until we manage the hyperemotional disarray our inheritance and enhance
>our sensory awareness.
"I see your point. I don't think we are going to get far with either
unless we understand at least the evolutionary origin of our
psychological traits and perhaps it will take understanding even the
"However, consider "hyper emotional disarray [of?] our
[of?] (Yes, thanks - I'm multi-tasking as I am writing ...)
"Whatever emotional traits we have come from
selection. They are not likely to be in disarray in the environment
of evolutionary adaptiveness (EEA), at least when considered from
the viewpoint of the genes that construct our emotional circuits. If
they are in disarray today, it's because the environment (material
and memetic culture) has changed and genes have not kept up. How has
culture changed? Is the change permanent? If we could, what changes
should we make in these traits? (We will have the ability to do it
soon, so thinking about this might be rather useful.)"
You are placing more emphasis on genes and I am placing more emphasis on
behavior. I'm not an essentialist, so I have to say that behavior is
partially genetic and partially adaptive and influenced by many variables.
"'[A]nd enhance our sensory awareness.' We are not aware or conscious
of everything that goes on. Why? I suspect awareness is a limited
and precious mental resource. We probably have a lot of hardwired
circuits to focus it on matters of pressing importance, and I think
there are mental illness states involving awareness. If we were to
enhance our sensory awareness, what would it take? What might it
cost in terms of other mental features?"
If not done with elegant science and a very smart control gauge, it would
cost a hell of a lot.
>I remember back in the late 1960s when Maharishi suggested that if 10% of
>humanity repeated a "Om" mantra, that there would be a rise in
>consciousness for all. I feel quite deeply that the consciousness of
>humanity can only be raised if we engineer our brains.
"An analogy that might help is that we have engineered our immune
systems since the invention of inoculation.
>More on this if
>anyone is interested, but I think my paper "Wisdom through AGI / Neural
>Macrosensing" says it fairly clearly.
"Is there a text version or a recording of your talk?"
A shortened text version is here:
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