[ExI] Change of thought (was Just curious, it's not natural!)

Robert Picone rpicone at gmail.com
Wed Sep 5 04:15:09 UTC 2007

On 9/4/07, spike <spike66 at comcast.net> wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org [mailto:extropy-chat-
> > bounces at lists.extropy.org] On Behalf Of PJ Manney
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 12:12 PM
> > To: ExI chat list
> > Subject: Re: [ExI] Change of thought (was Just curious, it's not natural!)
> >
> > On 9/3/07, spike <spike66 at comcast.net> wrote:
> > > If gay marriage becomes legal, would that problem be worse?  Could a
> > sick
> > > rich person marry her grandson's girlfriend ...
> >
> > The key word you used is "theoretically."
> >
> > Spike, there are only 800,000 same sex couples in the entire country.
> > Where's the huge rip off of the system by the straight couples?  When
> > my retirement money is being pilfered by every straight Tom, Dick and
> > Henrietta, then I'll be worried.  Emlyn's right.  This is a non-issue.
> >  Gays deserve the same rights straights get.
> >
> > And I thought you were a math wiz...  ;-)
> >
> > PJ
> PJ, the ripoffs I was describing have little or nothing to do with gay or
> straight, so the actual number of gay couples is irrelevant.  The
> grandmother who marries her grandson's girlfriend is presumed straight.  She
> goes into a fake marriage to provide her new spouse (and presumably her
> grandson) with a pension that lasts their lifetimes.

In some hypothetical future in which bisexuality doesn't carry any
stigma amongst any social group, maybe it would be irrelevant, but
this isn't the case.  This isn't likely to make any change in the way
things are not because of what could legally be technically done, but
due to the state of society.

Marrying across a large age gap already carries a major stigma,
especially if one openly admits to it, and it is only a fairly minor
problem these days because of the social complications.  Marrying a
member of the same sex carries an even more social problems, and one
wouldn't able to admit it is a sham without being guilty of defrauding
the state...

What are the odds that someone that was willing to go through the
marriage for this knows members of the same sex that wouldn't mind
publicly claiming to change their sexual orientation and doesn't know
a member of the opposite sex who would have to deal with a whole lot
less hassle?...

Would you marry a man and openly admit homosexuality (assuming you
don't already profess it) for monetary gains?...

> These sorts of scams could occur already, but perhaps allowing gay marriage
> would double the opportunities, or possibly more than double them.  Consider
> for instance that an elderly woman would likely feel more comfortable with a
> young woman living in her home than she would with a young man.  If grandma
> entered the arrangement in exchange for the young woman providing elderly
> care, then both women benefit.  Society pays dearly.  You and I pay for
> that.  When we need that social security, it might be bankrupt for paying
> off our younger fellow citizens who married an elderly (and long since
> perished) person in their 20s.

How many old women do you know that would be more comfortable talking
about their wives than their younger husbands?....

> The debate seems to be chronically sidetracked on irrelevant sexual morality
> issues.  Totally beside the point are these.  What really does matter, PJ is
> what it costs.  I don't care (no one should care) what people do with whom
> in their bedrooms.  But I care bigtime if it contributes in any way to
> plundering my pension fund.

The fact that a large chunk of the morality issues in of itself blocks
these problems though...    Outside of San Francisco, gays tend to
deal with quite a bit of shit that Io wouldn't be willing to choose
for a paycheck down the road.

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