[ExI] Really? and EP

[Keith Henson]

I know Natasha doesn't want this discussed, but it's a good idea *at
the proper level.*

> On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 10:11 PM, Anna Taylor <femmechakra at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>
>> I thought of starting this post off with a metaphor but decided against
>> it:)  I'm really disappointed with the dialogue that has been recently
>> discussed. Really...do we have to kick people out of countries because they
>> don't fit into what we have "decided" as the norm?  That doesn't sound very
>> Extropian.  War, memes that create "me like attitude" and "I know best
>> scenarios" have been repeated behavior since the dawn of men. The idea
>> behind a progressive idea is the memes that create positive energy and leads
>> to the benefit of the whole, not the chosen few.

Extropians are concerned with the future.  We therefore need models of
what is going to happen.  The technological singularity is a simple
model of exponentially increasing computation.  At some point in the
not so distant future a typical desktop computer will exceed the
processing capacity of a human brain.  This is a relatively simple
model

Models with feedback are more complicated.  I have been a student of
system dynamics since the early 1970s.  On top of this I have been
interested in gene based evolution (Dawkins, Hamilton and co.) since
the early 80s and in memetics since the mid 80s.  I got into
evolutionary psychology (Barkow, Cosmides, Tooby, etc.) in the 90s.
Genes, evolutionary psychology, and fundamental biology based on
physics and chemistry provide insight into the system dynamics models.

An area with a growing population and a limited and irregular
production of food is a formula for disaster.  The disaster could take
the form of famine, but is more likely to result in human conflict.
(Rwanda, Darfur).

2009/4/17 John Grigg <possiblepaths2050 at gmail.com>:
> Muslim hardliners and extremists living within western nations are a
> definite challenge to our values and legal systems,

The question here is *why* we have such people at all?  If we know
what social conditions generates religious extremists of all stripes
then we can see if there are fundamental ways to solve the problems.
This is not a new problem.  As we have been discussing recently we
have good history of similar events in our historical past.  We can to
some extent validate models against the past.

> and it is still a big
> *?* as to whether the West is truly up to the challenge.

It may be that we don't need to solve the problem, or rather that one
model (the singularity) can be expected to overrun other problems.

>Will we simply
> capitulate, or instead overreact with violence and injustice, or will we
> take a firm yet just course of action?

Don't forget that western European culture isn't the only one with
this problem.  It may become acute in Russia before it does in France.

If we want to understand what is going on, we have to build models.
The models are numbers intense.  Perhaps we need something like a wiki
where pages of graphical information feed into the overall dynamic
models.

Keith

> John
>
> On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 10:11 PM, Anna Taylor <femmechakra at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>
>> I thought of starting this post off with a metaphor but decided against
>> it:)  I'm really disappointed with the dialogue that has been recently
>> discussed. Really...do we have to kick people out of countries because they
>> don't fit into what we have "decided" as the norm?  That doesn't sound very
>> Extropian.  War, memes that create "me like attitude" and "I know best
>> scenarios" have been repeated behavior since the dawn of men. The idea
>> behind a progressive idea is the memes that create positive energy and leads
>> to the benefit of the whole, not the chosen few.
>>
>> Just an opinion:)
>> Anna
>>
>>
>>
>>
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