[ExI] consciousness and perception

[Gordon Swobe]

--- On Tue, 1/27/09, John K Clark <jonkc at bellsouth.net> wrote:

> Bullshit, Of course we do!...according to [Brent] that 
> subjective salty taste comes from a molecule of sodium 
> chloride not from my mind. According to [Brent] the molecule 
> is shouting TASTE SALTY, TASTE SALTY.
> 
> A more idiotic idea is hard to imagine.

Aside from the idea that molecules literally "shout" (of course they don't shout), the theory you attribute to Brent did not seem idiotic to the philosopher John Locke.

I went 'round and 'round with Brent on this subject here a couple of years ago. It seemed to me that Brent had rediscovered Locke's theory. Brent did not agree, but I've yet to find a better explanation for whatever Brent has in mind. 

On Locke's view there exist two kinds of properties of objects: primary and secondary. Primary properties of objects include solidity, extension, figure, motion and rest, and number. Secondary properties of objects include color, temperature, smell, taste and sound.

It seemed to me that Brent's idea of "phenomenal qualities of objects" must   in some way correspond to Locke's idea of "secondary properties of objects". 

Brent said no, that his idea of "phenomenal properties" does not correspond to Locke's idea of "secondary properties". 

Shortly thereafter I dropped the subject with him.

To Brent: 

It seems obvious to me that you feel very excited about your theories concerning these so-called "phenomenal properties". I have no doubt that you have a clear idea in your mind of whatever want to say. I feel sorry that I, and others it seems, do not understand the language you use to convey your ideas.

-gts