[ExI] left on iran

[spike]

> ...On Behalf Of Stefano Vaj
> Subject: Re: [ExI] left on iran
> 
> On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 10:08 PM, spike<spike66 at att.net> wrote:
> > How about 48% rather than 62%?  Would it still be hypocrisy 
> then?  We 
> > don't know who won that election.
> 
> When ever do we?...

Ja, this is my new cause.  We can create elections that are verifiable,
while maintaining secrecy *at the individual level* as a result of
technology.  Since we can, we must.  Otherwise it is intentional that we do
not, which is overt dictatorship.

... 
> > But I am not ready to give up the notion of countable and 
> verifiable 
> > elections.
> 
> I wonder whether you are ready to accept the results thereof 
> whatever they may be...

I won't like it, but I will accept it.  My side hasn't won an election in 25
years now (I voted for Reagan both times) but still I grudgingly accept the
outcomes.


>... I respect Mirko's position when he 
> maintains that legality is not the same of legitimacy, and I 
> am myself perplexed in this respect, because it may well 
> happen that somewhere, including in my country, rather 
> unpleasant political forces may get to power through 
> perfectly democratic procedures;  but the real point is that 
> elections in Iran were irrelevant for *both* factions. 
> Meaning internal and international factions... Stefano Vaj

Ja, and that is why we have term limits and frequent elections.  Altho our
two major parties in the US are very similar, nearly indistinguishable until
last year, at least the majority gets passed back and forth every few years.
What is bothering me is that one party can get in power, then make sure they
stay in power indefinitely.  That is the end of freedom.

A government *gives up* legitimacy if it behaves the way Iran is doing now.
All countries must ensure their people freedom of speech, freedom to
demonstrate, count their votes accurately.

spike