[ExI] Religions and violence

[Mirco Romanato]

Il 12/08/2010 0.58, Sabrina Ballard ha scritto:
>>> Good and peaceful Muslims can become rabid killers in just a
>>> moment of faith.
>> 
>>> The same is true with Christians and any variety of agnostic or 
>>> atheist that is not a pacifist.
>> 
>> I politely disagree: Christians, like Buddhists and others tend to 
>> become killers against the tenets of their faiths, where the
>> Muslims tend to become killer when they start to take their faith
>> too seriously.

> However this doesn't mean that they *won't*. Who says those Muslims
> do it, THEN find an excuse in their religion? The Catholics had
> their crusades too.


Your is moral relativism, where you are unable to tell the difference
from who went in war to defend itself and his liberty and property and
others and who went in war with the goals of taking liberty, life and
property to others.

Crusades came after 400 years of Muslims Jihads that conquered,
converted and submitted with the sword more than half of the
Christianity. Constantinople was sieged two times by the Arabs Muslims
and the Frank stalled the conquest of Spain. Large part of the
populations were enslaved and sold in the slave market in the Middle
East, where in the Christianity the institution of slavery was ending.
If you don't see a genetic mark in the M.E. populations today is because
they were worked to death, castrated or both.
Until the 1800 ("shores of Tripoli" anyone) the Muslims pirates of North
Africa raided the European coasts of the Mediterranean Sea to take booty
and slaves. We are talking of a few million of people taken and
enslaved. Two million only after the XV century. This is the reason the
coastal areas were depopulated and economically backward. They arrived
to raid England many times and a time they attacked Iceland.

And what the Muslims did to India make this pale in confront.

Now, if the Christians were the same as Muslims, where are the Muslims
slaves taken from North Africa and brought to work to death in Europe?
Where were the slave market of Europe? Who they sold the slave to?
Christianity have groups actively buying back the captured slaves to
return them to their homes. Were the Muslims doing the same?

Then we fall to discuss about the Christian and Catholics concept of
"JUST WAR". Under this concept, if all followed it (and you don't need
to be a Christian to follow it), wars would not happen.

from the Wikipedia

<<the Catechism of the Catholic Church, in paragraph 2309, lists four
strict conditions for "legitimate defense by military force":

    * the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community
of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;
    * all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be
impractical or ineffective;
    * there must be serious prospects of success;
    * the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than
the evil to be eliminated. The power of modern means of destruction
weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition.>>

by the way,
<<Anarcho-capitalist scholar Murray Rothbard  stated, "a just war exists
when a people tries to ward off the threat of coercive domination by
another people, or to overthrow an already-existing domination. A war is
unjust, on the other hand, when a people try to impose domination on
another people, or try to retain an already existing coercive rule over
them.">>

Shaaria is enough to justify war against Muslims by any other, subjected
or not to them.


> And the Bible contradicts itself, especially when you compare the
> old and new testament. There is a foundation for violence in the
> Torah and Bible, but they are largely ignored.

You confuse the record of violence with the endorsement of violence as a
tool men can use as they like to obtain what they wish.
For example, when you look at the Deuteronomy 2, you can read of the
extermination of Sichon king of Chesbon and all of his people. But if
you start to take away your attention from the gore, you can read that:

1) the Jews where forbidden to attack Seir (because it was of the
children of Esau) and  Ar (because it was of the children of Lot).
And god stated he would not allow the Jews to take enough land from them
to put a feet over. And ordered them to pay for food and water they used.

Lesson to the Jews: not all of this is your to take. What God gave to
others you can not take. And pay for what you take.

2) Even with Sichon, he ordered the Jews to ask for peaceful passage
before and offer to pay for anything they needed (water and food) like
they did before. Sichon choose to go at war with them, instead. Bad
choice, wrong decision. God only knew before what would be the decision
of Sichon.

Lesson to the Jews: you don't start a war with anyone or I will not
support you. They start the war, I support you to win.



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*Mirco Romanato*

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