[ExI] meaning & symbols

[Spencer Campbell]

Gordon Swobe <gts_2000 at yahoo.com>:
> Many things aside from symbols can consistently and systematically change the state of the symbol reader.

This isn't true even remotely true of all symbol readers real and
imaginary. Maybe you're talking about the human mind specifically.
But, if not:

Turing machines are not real things, but they are symbol readers. If
we imagine a Turing machine whose state can be changed, consistently
and systematically, by anything aside from symbols, we are not really
imagining a Turing machine anymore.

Gordon Swobe <gts_2000 at yahoo.com>:
> This wikipedia definition seems better:
>
> "A symbol is something such as an object, picture, written word, sound, or particular mark that represents something else by association, resemblance, or convention."

More generally accurate, yes, but in this context not nearly as useful
as Ben Zaiboc's definition. Wikipedia's does not come anywhere near
explaining how one symbol can dynamically give rise to a chain of
other symbols, which, to my thinking, is the very essence of thought.

My guess is that no one here believes meaning can exist outside of
thought, or at least a thought-like process.

The only question is how thought-like the process has to be.