[ExI] Religions and violence [Was Re: Sarah Palin]

Mike Dougherty msd001 at gmail.com
Sat Jul 24 19:13:45 UTC 2010


2010/7/23 John Clark <jonkc at bellsouth.net>:
> On Jul 22, 2010, at 6:47 PM, Mike Dougherty wrote:
> Me:
>
> [Genetically Jews and Arabs] are virtually identical, so some other factor
> must explain this anomaly and I think we both know what that factor is.
>
> New York Deli Pastrami?  Bagels?  Nope, I'm unsure what that factor is.
>
> You know what, I flat out don't believe you. I believe you can think of a
> cultural factor that is astronomically more likely to be the source of that
> HUGE Nobel deficit among the Islamic than bagels, but will not admit it
> (perhaps even to yourself) for fear of being called a foe
> of multiculturalism. I say a spade should be called a spade.

haha.  I'm just yankin' yer chain.

I'll admit that I am unprepared to be either a friend OR a foe of
multiculturalism.  I live a mostly sheltered American lifestyle.  More
so a sheltered North Eastern American, no - A Pennsylvanian, no - a
narrow regional lifestyle.  I'm not really sure how average or typical
I may be for my own local/state/federal norms.

My wife grew up in an area with an even mix of black/white racial
distribution.  She mostly sees people for who they are before noting
their skin color.  My dad grew up in a homogeneous white community and
had very little interaction with black people in his life.  He will
relate fond memories about coworkers by starting, "This black guy that
I worked with..."  My wife hears that as racism.  I believe my dad is
relating a detail that is significant to his otherwise limited
experience.  He does the same thing with small amount of information
he's received about Italy from the single Italian immigrant he has had
personal interaction with.  So that pizza shop owner is (in my dad's
world) a representative of an entire people group; (and with no other
samples) my dad believes that all Italians are like the one Italian he
knows.  ...or that black people are like the few black people he knew.
 Is this unfair?  I think it's completely natural for how we learn to
associate properties to a group by observing individual members of the
group.  ex: Are dogs friendly?  If the first three dogs you ever
encounter snarl and bite, you are probably less likely to believe that
dogs are categorically friendly.  The exception becomes your rule.

I think the exceptional fundamentalist Christian or Muslim will bias
our perception of the majority because they are more highly visible
than their less extreme members.  If in our daily lives we have no
friendly perception of a group then it is very easy to demonize the
whole group.  It was morally easier to place Japanese Americans in
camps during WWII than it would have been for German Americans because
the majority of Americans are European descendants with friends/family
of German heritage - compared with the otherwise alien "yellow menace"
that triggers the Xenophobic/irrational defense mechanisms.  (more
obvious EP behavioral influence)

The same attitude applies to 'illegals' from Mexico.  It's very easy
to imagine hordes of threatening invaders crossing our borders to
steal public services from entitled Americans and act aggressively to
defend against the attack.  It's much more difficult (even
logistically) to meet and recognize each individual's humanity.  While
I was in Mexico, albeit in the touristy Riviera, I was surprised by
how similar the average person's work-a-day life was to my own.  How
can we judge others who are so like ourselves?

I imagine John will remind me that this thread regards Muslim jihads
and the appropriate response of us infidels to the implicit
declaration of war on our way of life.  I get it.  Christians have a
directive to convert the non-believers too.  Atheists seem compelled
to enlighten the Theists.  Pepsi drinkers try to convert Coke drinkers
and vice-versa.  My idea is better than yours and your idea is better
than mine.  It's a process of ebb and flow.  If we were somehow able
to wipe out all opposition, there would be no reference point in that
dimension.  Some of the life's complexity is lost by homogeneity.  To
the extent that complexity is good or bad depends on available
resource to deal with it.  As we approach the singularity and the rate
of complexity increases, so too does our ability to manage it.
Imbalance between our ability to manage resources and complexity leads
to corrective action (jihads, government increases, civil rights
revocation, etc.)  On a day to day basis though I feel powerless to do
much about it, so what point is there in railing against the process?

Disclaimer:  I intended no ill-will to any of the people groups (or
canines) mentioned in this post.  Religious affiliation, Ethnicity and
Nationality (and species) could easily be changed without affecting
the point I was trying to make.




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