[ExI] Serfdom and libertarian critiques (Was: Call to Libertarians)

Sondre Bjellås sondre-list at bjellas.com
Tue Mar 8 21:22:24 UTC 2011

Thanks for a great comment!

There isn't much more to add than what you already said, the belief that
democracy and todays modern states are anything different than the feudal
societies, shows that their propaganda actually works ;-) 

- Sondre

-----Original Message-----
From: extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org
[mailto:extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org] On Behalf Of J. Stanton
Sent: 19. februar 2011 21:38
To: extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
Subject: [ExI] Serfdom and libertarian critiques (Was: Call to Libertarians)

On 2/19/11 10:46 AM, Richard Loosemore wrote:
> Taxation and
> government and redistribution of wealth are what separate us from the 
> dark ages.  The concept of taxation + government + redistribution of 
> wealth was the INCREDIBLE INVENTION that allowed human societies in at 
> least one corner of this planet to emerge from feudal societies where 
> everyone looked after themselves and the devil took the hindmost.

This is a breathtakingly counterfactual statement.

Feudal economies were and are entirely supported by "taxation + government +
redistribution of wealth".

The only difference is that in a feudal economy, the redistribution is from
the masses to the already rich, in the form of "lords" -- whereas in our
modern government-contronlled economy, the redistribution is from the masses
to the already rich in the form of "corporations" and "banks".

The difference of income and assets between a feudal serf and his lord in
the Middle Ages is not proportionally larger than the difference in income
and assets today between the average world citizen and its richest citizens.
The only difference is that we serfs have a better standard of living than
in the Dark Ages due to sterile medicine, antibiotics, and mass production
of technology.

If anyone thinks there is a difference of kind between medieval serfdom and
what we have in America ("oh, we can OWN LAND") just stop paying your
property tax -- or any other tax -- and you'll see that the state owns
everything, just as in the Dark Ages.  What we call "ownership" is a
finder's fee for the privilege of paying below-market rent.

As far as libertarianism, I find the standard statist critique to be
nonsense: claims that the government ca be less corrupt than the people
assume that government is made up of something other than people, which
fails trivially.  I think Bob Black's critique is much more trenchant:

"The Libertarian As Conservative"

"Silly doctrinaire theories which regard the state as a parasitic
excrescence on society cannot explain its centuries-long persistence, its
ongoing encroachment upon what was previously market terrain, or its
acceptance by the overwhelming majority of people including its demonstrable

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