[ExI] Strong libertarianism, societal good, & suffering (was: Cephalization, proles)

[Damien Sullivan]

On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 01:17:49PM -0500, Damien Broderick wrote:

> I have the feeling that Rafal's position is not a million miles from
> the True Knowledge of the (paradoxically) libertarian communist
> future portrayed in Ken MacLeod's novel THE CASSINI DIVISION:

That's not a paradox, that's "libertarian" having multiple meanings, and
the communist one is the older one; US libertarians borrowed the term
for their purified version of the dying classical liberal position.

> We had founded our idealism on the most nihilistic implications of
> science, our socialism on crass self-interest, our peace on our
               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

True.  My position as a social democrat is motivated partly by altruism
and egalitarianism and "that's just wrong", but it's also motivated by
risk-averse selfishness.  I'm in a good position due to scholarships and
job talent and semi-lucky inheritance, but it's not unassailable, and I
have lots of friends and family who aren't so blessed.  I want them and
bad-luck-me to be protected from medical bankruptcies, have good
transportation options, have a fair share of the country's resources,
not be handicapped by college debt, etc.

> capacity for mutual destruction, and our liberty on determinism. We
> had replaced morality with convention, bravery with safety,
> frugality with plenty, philosophy with science, stoicism with
> anaesthetics and piety with immortality. The universal acid of the

I love this passage.

-xx- Damien X-)