[ExI] Iain M Banks' Culture Novels [WAS Re: Usages of the term libertarianism]

[Damien Sullivan]

On Sat, May 21, 2011 at 05:05:02PM -0400, Richard Loosemore wrote:

> >(Controlled, enslaved) technology
> 
> ... which actually makes me think you may not have read the novels,
> because the Minds are *anything* but controlled and enslaved!  They
> keep each other in line, but within extremely broad limits.  In
> fact, I can hardly imagine a less controlled and enslaved
> technology.

To play devil's advocate: the whole notion of enslavement gets murky
when you can control personality and desire.  Human slaves are forced to
do things they don't want, for the service of another (leaving
consensual BDSM "slaves" out of this.)  Almost no one in the Culture is
forced to do something they don't want (passing over some blackmail in
Player of Games.)  

But it's pretty clear that Culture AIs, drones and Minds, are made to be
social and to like people.  They *want* to be helpful and moral and to
abide by democratic votes.  They're not microprogrammed, there's some
randomness in personality growth, and if you come out 'wrong' they'll
(take your weapons and) let you go, rather than 'fixing' you.  But
mostly Culture technology is indeed subject to powerful though soft
control, through controlling what AIs want in the first place.

Whether this is enslavement, well, who's being enslaved?  It's not like
there's some "true" human-hating personality that would really want to
do something else but was brainwashed into service.

> And finally, as Keith pointed out, it almost beggars belief that you
> would describe the Culture as filled with "stagnation and
> uniformity". What more would you want, in the way of non-stagnation?

Examples of humans uploading and expanding themselves, probably.

Of course, in the Culture universe, if you're really ambitious you can
Sublime, and we know people do that.

> "...much more of a threat for indefinite becoming ... than any
> neoluddite dreams"??  Now, I am sorry, but that is just silly.

I agree, really.

-xx- Damien X-)