[ExI] Usages of the term libertarianism

[Rafal Smigrodzki]

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 7:49 AM, Richard Loosemore <rpwl at lightlink.com> wrote:

> I'm puzzled as to why you find it funny.  I have lived on both continents,
> and I can assure you that BillK is just saying something that is considered
> common knowlege in the rest of the world (i.e. the fact that there is almost
> no socialism in the U.S.).  The only group of people who find this difficult
> to understand are U.S. right wingers.
>
> I would guess that roughly 70% of all Democrat politicians in the U.S. would
> could as significantly right of center in most European countries.

### As someone who grew up under communism, I am enduringly amazed at
how close most US politicians are to old commies back home. They
exhibit the same arrogance, ignorance of economics, greed, hatred of
working people, hypocrisy. Whether they are called right or left
wingers doesn't matter, because they are equivalent in their penchant
for carelessly destroying human lives.

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The term "socialism", in Europe, means
> something like "believing that government has the responsibility to look
> after the interests of the weaker members of society".

### Arrant hypocrisy.

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> Factually incorrect.  The corporate tax rate is a meaningless number because
> there are so many tax breaks specially designed to get around it, that most
> corporations actually pay an amount of tax that is far less than the rate
> that middle class American individuals pay.

### Ignorance of economics. Read on tax incidence theory, Richard.

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>
> The tax rate does not drive companies overseas, corporate greed drives
> companies overseas.

### Geez, from the depth of your insight I could almost think you have
at some point worked for a corporation.

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>> For me, it's pretty easy.. American or England in 1800... Of course my
>> utopia would not have slavery.
>
> At that time, children of poor families were sent down mines at the age of 8
> or 9 years, to work for 12-18 hours a day.  Or sent into factories for the
> same hours.

### Richard, you are not really making a coherent point here. Do you
*really* think the historical observations you quote are arguments in
favor of expropriation of workers (i.e. the people you like to pile on
hate as "corporations")?

-------------------------
>
> The fact that you would quote that period as an economic utopia speaks
> volumes about your knowledge of history and ability to apply that knowledge
> to real world systems.

### That period was the first time ever in the history of mankind that
a whole society pulled itself out the Malthusian trap. Do you
understand the significance? (You might want to read "A Farewell to
Alms" for some background story).

Rafal