[ExI] Money and Human Nature (was Re: Capitalism, anti capitalism, emotional arousal)

[Giovanni Santostasi]

>From Pavlina article:

"Technology handles all the gruntwork, which gives characters the freedom
to pursue their purpose without worrying so much about meeting their basic
needs. People work because they want to, not because they have to. The
characters have the freedom to be lazy and do nothing in this world if they
wanted to, but they choose to contribute."



On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 3:07 PM, Giovanni Santostasi
<gsantostasi at gmail.com>wrote:

> What about Star Trek society? Read this for example
>
> http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2005/06/lessons-from-star-trek/
>
>
> Giovanni
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 2:55 PM, Kelly Anderson <kellycoinguy at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> 2011/11/11 Dave Sill <sparge at gmail.com>:
>> > 2011/11/11 Giovanni Santostasi <gsantostasi at gmail.com>
>> >>
>> >> Then money is the problem.
>>
>> Money is merely a tool that frees us from the burden of finding barter
>> partners. If you want to go all the way to a system where nobody owns
>> anything, we can discuss that. Some island systems in Tonga and Tahiti
>> as well as some hunter gatherer cultures allegedly got past ownership,
>> and simply shared all they had.
>>
>> This is the partial goal of some in the open source movement, as well
>> as wikileaks and other parts of cyber space. You can't really
>> effectively get rid of money without also getting rid of the concept
>> of ownership.
>>
>> Now, if you get rid of the concept of ownership... you have to go all
>> the way, and this eventually means that you cannot claim ownership of
>> the sub-strait that you use to compute. That is currently your brain.
>> Some day, it may be a different medium, and you can't own that either.
>>
>> A true and full form of collectivism, where we become the Borg, where
>> we lose all individuality and ego is the only alternative to money
>> that really makes any sense.
>>
>> I get the idea that most of the people on this list are fierce
>> individualists, and want to remain as individuals. So I don't think,
>> in the end, many of the list members will go along with "let's get rid
>> of money"...
>>
>> On the other hand, you could probably find a lot of people who would
>> go along with let's get rid of the federal reserve, or let's get rid
>> of fractionalized banking... or other aspects of our financial
>> systems. But that is not money. Money is a much more primitive beast
>> than that.
>>
>> > I think human nature is the problem.
>>
>> Here Dave is clearly onto something... :-)  But how much of our human
>> nature do we really want to give up? Are we really better off without
>> anger? Are we better off without jealousy? Could we throw out
>> religion? Get rid of the concept that other people somehow "belong" to
>> us (as in a "committed" relationship)? What do we want to lose in
>> order to gain the most. And what is most important to gain?
>>
>> Just adding more intelligence without any other adjustments seems to
>> be a rather limiting choice... likely to lead to a really bad outcome.
>> But is altruism the answer? Is compassion the answer? More empathy?
>> Love?
>>
>> These are not easy questions, and I don't expect glib answers that
>> will solve the real problems this kind of thing brings up.
>>
>> -Kelly
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>>
>
>
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