[ExI] pets, mirrors and cryonics
giulio at gmail.com
Sun Nov 4 07:32:51 UTC 2012
"Question please pet owners: are you willing to share how your pet reacts
to its own image?"
Not at all. My Sacha is the sweetest doggy in the world, but does not show
any reaction to her image in the mirror. But then, dogs rely on smell as
much as they rely on sight, perhaps more. I guess dogs would react
differently to some kind of olfactive mirror that echoes their own smell
By comparison, my daughter started to recognize the little girl in the
mirror when she was 9 or 10 months old.
On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 6:50 AM, spike <spike66 at att.net> wrote:
> Note this post is from Taurus, although it is under my name. I approved it
> and it showed up as approval acknowledged over an hour ago but for some
> reason it didn't show up in the inbox. Sometimes the server does this, I
> don't know what is up with it, and I am not an internet hipster. In any
> case, Taurus had some really interesting information about
> processes, so I didn't want to risk his message being lost in the ethereal
> nothingness of wherever bit-streams go when they don't get to where they
> were sent.
> Welcome Taurus Londono, great first post man!
> Londono wrote:
> I want to thank you for sharing these poignant experiences. I'm a lurker,
> but your message spurred me to respond.
> It is not generally recognized that dogs pass the traditional mirror test.
> Of course, this seems contrary to experience once you've actually raised a
> dog. One way I test my Basset Hound when he's facing a mirror;
> Nosferatu-style hands slowly creeping up behind him; he eyes the hands in
> the mirror and quickly turns around just like a human would. Odorless dye
> method is evidently flawed.
> My understanding is that the failure of Alzheimer's patients to recognize
> themselves in the mirror is unrelated to the latent neurological potential
> to do so (shared with some animals) *per se*. AFAIK, this is a result of
> accumulating loss of dendritic spines; ie the memory of the patient's most
> recent physical appearance. AFAIK, it is not the case that the
> neurodegenerative process is necessarily selective for the most recent
> ultrastructural changes; synaptic alterations can initially leave recently
> formed memories isolated if not intact. However, LTP is the first to go,
> long-term memories (and the emotional reinforcement you correctly cite)
> appear to have greater resistance to the onset of disruptions in expression
> of amyloid precursor protein.
> The consequence is that the old Cryonics adage applies; last in, first out.
> You're right to appreciate how serious this issue is with respect to
> information theoretic death. FWIW, the inimitable Mike Darwin has focused a
> considerable amount of attention on the topic. The only silver lining is
> that it is easier to envision biomedical amelioration than with, say,
> cancer. Pharmaceuticals are already approaching some semblance of a
> to address this terrible disease.
> - Taurus Londono
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
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