[ExI] Current uploading sales brochure?
brent.allsop at canonizer.com
Sun Apr 21 19:57:43 UTC 2013
This sounds like a very interesting and beneficial Project. For the
past 4 or 5 years I've been working on a survey project to survey the
worlds best experts about how consciousness works. I've been attending
conferences on consciousness and interviewing experts, and integrating
all of their best ideas on consciousness into the open survey being
collaboratively developed by all at Canonizer.com.
My personal interest in this is precisely because I want to know what
the best expert theories are, and what the leading theories are predict
will be possible with uploading, most importantly, what will or could it
be subjectively like to be uploaded to a much more capable system.
So far, about 50 people have participated in integrating their theories
into the survey, already including diverse people like Daniel Dennett
(http://canonizer.com/topic.asp/88/21), Steven Lehar
(http://canonizer.com/topic.asp/88/17), David Chalmers
(http://canonizer.com/topic.asp/88/8), and a growing number of others.
There is also a growing number of supporters of each of their respective
camps. As more experts participate in the survey, it's ability to
provide a real time measure of expert consensus, about each of the
concisely stated leading theories being developed, will continue to
improve, in a horse race kind of way. Everyone can watch this and be
educated by it, as we approach the demonstrable science that will surely
soon falsify all but the one true camp. By definition, everyone will
definitively know how close we are, as the leading experts start to
abandon the various competing theories, and converge on the one theory
that works. At least one camp has already been falsified by the data
coming out of the large hadron collider. Currently there are about 3
leading theories with the most consensus, and lots of 'noise' camps (due
to the fact that nothing is censored on the way in) which can be easily
The surprising thing is how much consensus has been achieved with the
consensus building system, despite the diversity of experts already
participating. The near unanimous emerging consensus is so far focusing
arround what the experts have now agreed to call "Representational
Qualia Theory" (http://canonizer.com/topic.asp/88/6). This is the basic
idea predicting that a redness quality, is not a quality of the
strawberry, but instead, is a quality of our knowledge of the strawberry
or a property of the final result of the perception process. The only
disagreement seems to be about the nature of the relationship between
such qualities we can experience, and the underlying neural correlates
responsible for them. So far, the leading Neck and Neck camps are
Chalmer's "Functional Property Dualism" which is predicting the
relationship is Functional, and Hameroff's "Material Property Dualism"
which is predicting the qualities are a quality of some material stuff,
and without the right material, no redness quality experience.
Obviously, each of these are very falsifiable, and it's only a matter of
time before the experimental neural scientist demonstrate which one is
the true theory, to the falsification of all others.
Given this theory the experts seem to so far near unanimously agree on,
there is a conscious world in our head, which is our knowledge of the
world we are consciously aware of, through it via our senses. At the
center of this conscious world, is our knowledge of our "self", which
unlike most of the rest of our knowledge of the world, doesn't have a
referent in realty. However, despite this lack of a referent in reality,
it and it's continuity is still something that is very real, and
important to what we are and how we might want to be uploaded.
The consensus seems to be predicting that we will be able to create
significantly expanded and diverse phenomenal conscious worlds on
artificial platforms, and consciously merge these worlds of knowledge
(via effing of the ineffable techniques being predicted by the various
different theories) with the worlds currently being produced by our
brains. With that, our knowledge of our self spirit, even though it
doesn't have a referent in reality, well be able to traverse back and
forth between these two conscious worlds (the one currently in our bran,
and the expanded and consciously connected one running on the greatly
enhanced artificial platform.) much like an out of body experience.
I've written a short story narrative describing exactly what these
theories are predicting will be possible and what it could consciously
be like for us. It is contained in Chapers 5 and 6 of the short story
entitled "1229 Years After Titanic"
still kind of crude, but if you are interested I'd love to know your
thoughts of any of it.
Most people are afraid of uploading, because they think there will be no
possible continuity between one's self and the upload, and no way of
knowing if that upload is the same as the real me. But the leading
theories are now predicting that this need not be the case. The
prediction is that people's knowledge of themselves, their knowledge of
their 'spirits' if you will, will be able to represented as if we are
having an "out of body experience" as we move from one platform to
another, much like is roughly portrayed in the movie Avatar. I think
getting people to understand this kind of stuff, will definitely get
them interested in understanding what will be possible. The result
being people loosing all fears of being uploaded that so many still
If any sales brochure could communicate that, it would surely be a great
success at motivating people to push towards uploading, and the singularity.
Anyway, that's just how things currently appear to me. I'd love to
follow what you are working on, and see any results you end up with, as
I am keenly interested in all such!
On 4/21/2013 12:56 PM, Adrian Tymes wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 20, 2013 at 10:59 PM, Alan Grimes <ALONZOTG at verizon.net
> <mailto:ALONZOTG at verizon.net>> wrote:
> I want to cover the subject of what it will actually be like to be
> an upload in extreme detail, accuracy, and honesty. To that end, I
> need to brush up on what the current claims are as to why it
> should be so great and, in the greatest possible detail, how it
> will work.
> One scene you could do: have an upload come across a former
> chassis, possibly interleaved with memories of its destruction.
> "I was killed...but I know who did it and exactly how. In theory,
> I can visit the same death upon them The difference? They
> can't come back."
> Bonus points if this wasn't the original biological chassis, the
> death of which spurred the upload, but just another drone body -
> and if this has happened before, so the protagonist has already
> wrestled with the question of revenge.
> As to the day to day operation, I'd suggest analogs to disabled
> people where the host is less capable than a human body - and
> similar thoughts where the host is more capable. Either way,
> the upload is "living with" new limits in exactly the same way
> any normal human with a long term condition that impacts
> quality of life is "living with" it. (Lose an arm, and it'll be a week
> until you get a replacement? You're one-handed for a week.
> Super-strong? You learn - quickly - how to control it, so you're
> not wrecking your house; you almost certainly aren't still having
> major accidents weeks later.)
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
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