[ExI] spanish train wreck

Tue Jul 30 11:26:26 UTC 2013

I haven´t read deeply the problems with the train, but, as far as I know,
there is not security systems enough because they wanted to make the high
speed train as soon as possible, so, without that security system, just ten
seconds of loss of concentration of the driver may make the train wreck.
And it did.

If you have read about the victims and you know how surnames works in Spain
(Martínez is my father´s surname and Sierra is my mother surname. We don´t
lose any surname, so we can trace it undefinitedly. My full name, as long
as I know is Eugenio Manuel Martínez Sierra Ramos García Noriega García
Ufano) maybe you have read about a Instituto Cervante´s teacher in
Estambul, Manuel Sierra Morán, whose first surname coincide with my second
one. He was my oldest cousin. He used to pass the summers in my house and
for me and my siblings was like our brother. My girlfriend met him first
two days before the accident. I am very happy because I told her that he
was like my brother before he died, so I know for sure that I really felt
that and that is not a feeling caused because nostalgia.
My family is devastated. He was chatting and joking in my familia Sierra´s
whatsapp group and sent us a photo from the train 20 minutes before he died.

What are the chances? He had lived in a lot of places around the world and
he was spending just a couple of weeks in Spain. He had a very beautiful
farewell: He was with everybody of us, their family and friends. I don´t
believe in anything not real, but I like to think - even knowing that it´s
false - that he knew that he was going to die, so he spend a couple of
hours with each of us alone, that is what he did. We had a lot of pending
conversations and we closed all of them his last week. Sound like a big
coincidence, but that happens

The night of the trainwreck was horrible, because we couldn´t find him and
he didn´t reply the phone and we were reading everything on the internet
and asking for information in twitter and facebook and etc. The next day,
when we have official confirmation, was like a terrible rest..

The funeral was two days ago. A catholic priest made whatever he wanted to
do without ask for permission and broke the "step by step" planned funeral
that we had ready. We didn´t took him out of the room because we didn´t
want to make a scandal. Yesterday there was a catholic official funeral,
even if some of the victims were atheist - like my cousin - and I heard
that there is a muslim one. A woman approached to me in the funeral and
told me about him staying with god. I asked her were was his god when the
trainwreck. Still waiting for an answer.

The organization was a real disaster. Is always the same with this
government in every big disaster: My cousin arrived 8 hours later than the
estimated time because he was sent to another family. Luckily, we didn´t
had the chance of open the coffin and see that he was not him because they
ordered the hearse return before. The other family was not so fortunate.

A lot of people asked to everybody to not post photos of the corpses. I
think that is a mistake. I looked for him in every photo because I wanted
to know if he was dead as soon as posible. What is horrible is the
trainwrecking video where you can see how the train go nuts. They put it in
the tv once and again. I can´t see it one more time.

I am still not believing it.

On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 8:10 PM, BillK <pharos at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 6:28 PM, spike  wrote:
> > Thanks BillK, and this makes my point: from a controls engineering
> > perspective, this is an easy problem, easy, easy.  The GPS can be aboard
> the
> > train, with redundancy, that make up a control system that is actually a
> > superset of what would be needed to assist a train driver.  We know the
> > argument that automated controls cause the human operators to neglect
> some
> > aspects of control, since the driver has the option to turn on the
> automated
> > system.  What I propose is something more robust: an automated GPS-based
> > maximum speed control that the driver cannot override, making it
> physically
> > impossible for her to defeat the maximum speed control even if she
> decides
> > to intentionally crash the train.  Then a few moments of inattention are
> > irrelevant.
> >
> > Similar systems could easily be installed in airliners.  We had an
> airline
> > crash locally, a Korean flight crew came in too slow and whacked the
> tail on
> > the threshold, slaying two and wrecking a perfectly healthy aircraft.
>  The
> > passengers aboard who were experienced at coming into San Francisco knew
> > several miles out that the plane was coming in too low and far too slow.
> > There is a case where the passengers knew more than the two yahoos
> guiding
> > the aircraft.
> >
> > Automation of that glide path control would fix that problem.
> >
> >
>
> Quote:
> With a system such as the European Train Control System (ETCS), a
> driver would not be able to break the speed limit.
> -----------
>
> The ETCS system applied to most of that line, but at the end of a high
> speed straight run, just before the bend the train switched to an
> older track with an older warning system. So at the very time that a
> drastic speed cut was required, ETCS no longer applied.
> It may be that the driver thought that ETCS still applied, so he was
> casual about the speed limits, or maybe the older warning system
> failed, or maybe the driver ignored the warning or maybe he didn't
> have time to react.
>
> Eventually the fail safe ETCS will be installed everywhere.
>
> Re the SF plane crash, I understand the automated glide path control
> system was switched off by the airport for maintenance so the pilots
> had to fly the plane in themselves.
>
> The trouble with giving humans systems that protect them from errors
> is that the humans then rely on the automated systems and don't look
> out for themselves. That's why drivers follow gps instructions to
> drive into rivers and along railway tracks.
>
> BillK
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>

-- 
OLVIDATE.DE
Tatachan.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.extropy.org/pipermail/extropy-chat/attachments/20130730/e05ae3c6/attachment.html>