[ExI] europeans say yanks are spying

taxakis taxakis at gmail.com
Fri Oct 25 08:22:21 UTC 2013

I couldn't have said it better, Eugen.  Staged crap. 

The entire debate is crafted by spin-doctors, wittingly and eagerly assisted
by cash seeking press.


>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org [mailto:extropy-chat-
>     bounces at lists.extropy.org] On Behalf Of Eugen Leitl
>     Sent: Friday, October 25, 2013 8:52 AM
>     To: extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
>     Subject: Re: [ExI] europeans say yanks are spying
>     On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 12:08:22AM +0100, Anders Sandberg wrote:
>     > Of course intelligence agencies are up to a lot of surveillance of
>     > friends and foes. But there are presumably certain gentlemen's
>     > agreements about what Is Not Done. Flouting these are not just
>     > embarrassments, they are signs that a government is no longer in
>     > control over their agencies.
>     This is a common narrative, but I doubt it ever was true.
>     Some countries are little more than US vassals -- occupied Germany
>     be a good example (Sweden, the sixth's eye, another -- witness the
>     Assange charade, for instance -- and last, but not least the UKUSA
>     members).
>     Do you think BND has installed the surveillance capacity in Germany?
>     an open secret NSA is operating all the sigint, and throwing the three
>     German intelligence services a few information scraps from their
>     The only gentlemen's agreements exist between national intelligence
>     services, where there are no formal (secret, of course) obligations to
>     collect and share.
>     Why do you think there are US drones over Bavaria, officially limited
>     certain flight corridors?
>     And that Germany can't train their own military pilots but leave it to
>     the US? Allies, yeah, right.
>     > I think the US is seriously losing allies right now. Worse, we are
>     > seeing further breakdown of an international system that - while
>     > perfect - at least kept trust and interaction habits functional.
>     Was that any trust to start with? The mix of economic and outright
>     petrodollar-maintenance warfare seem to keep the "partners" firmly on
>     leash.
>     What we're seeing it little more than kabuki theatre, played for the
>     masses in managed democracies.
>     Any outrage is staged, or comes from real ignorance (of course,
>     interpretation is favorable, it it comes from our designated leaders).
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