[ExI] europeans say yanks are spying
taxakis at gmail.com
Fri Oct 25 08:22:21 UTC 2013
I couldn't have said it better, Eugen. Staged crap.
The entire debate is crafted by spin-doctors, wittingly and eagerly assisted
by cash seeking press.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org [mailto:extropy-chat-
> bounces at lists.extropy.org] On Behalf Of Eugen Leitl
> Sent: Friday, October 25, 2013 8:52 AM
> To: extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> Subject: Re: [ExI] europeans say yanks are spying
> On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 12:08:22AM +0100, Anders Sandberg wrote:
> > Of course intelligence agencies are up to a lot of surveillance of
> > friends and foes. But there are presumably certain gentlemen's
> > agreements about what Is Not Done. Flouting these are not just
> > embarrassments, they are signs that a government is no longer in
> > control over their agencies.
> This is a common narrative, but I doubt it ever was true.
> Some countries are little more than US vassals -- occupied Germany
> be a good example (Sweden, the sixth's eye, another -- witness the
> Assange charade, for instance -- and last, but not least the UKUSA
> Do you think BND has installed the surveillance capacity in Germany?
> an open secret NSA is operating all the sigint, and throwing the three
> German intelligence services a few information scraps from their
> The only gentlemen's agreements exist between national intelligence
> services, where there are no formal (secret, of course) obligations to
> collect and share.
> Why do you think there are US drones over Bavaria, officially limited
> certain flight corridors?
> And that Germany can't train their own military pilots but leave it to
> the US? Allies, yeah, right.
> > I think the US is seriously losing allies right now. Worse, we are
> > seeing further breakdown of an international system that - while
> > perfect - at least kept trust and interaction habits functional.
> Was that any trust to start with? The mix of economic and outright
> petrodollar-maintenance warfare seem to keep the "partners" firmly on
> What we're seeing it little more than kabuki theatre, played for the
> masses in managed democracies.
> Any outrage is staged, or comes from real ignorance (of course,
> interpretation is favorable, it it comes from our designated leaders).
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