[ExI] Basic Income - Basic Housing?

Stathis Papaioannou stathisp at gmail.com
Tue Apr 8 06:56:41 UTC 2014

On 8 April 2014 15:45, Kelly Anderson <kellycoinguy at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 10:35 AM, William Flynn Wallace <
> foozler83 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I don't know either but I do know this:  alcoholics and drug addicts and
>> the mentally retarded and psychotic should not be homeless unless they
>> simply will not stay put in some kind of housing.  I have worked in mental
>> institutions from the lowest level aide to professional psychologist
>> (including Bryce Hospital in Tuscaloosa that filed the law suit that
>> changed a lot of things in 1973) and think that after minorities such as
>> blacks, women, animals, and children have all had many advocates and
>> organization devoted to them, maybe we can have a civil rights movement for
>> the above fathers, mothers, children, brothers and sisters of our citizens.
>> I think we should be judged in part by how we treat the lowest and most
>> helpless of us.
> Bill,
>   When the courts prevent people from being incarcerated against their
> will when seriously mentally ill, it is a great victory for the personal
> freedom of the individual who is mentally ill. But with freedom comes
> responsibility. If the person is dangerous to others, and demonstrates that
> through aggressive behavior, they can be put away in a place where they
> won't hurt others. Also, they can then freeze to death, starve if they
> don't seek help, or get into all sorts of other trouble they might have
> avoided while in the care of the state or a private organization that cares
> for these sorts of people.
>   So my liberty loving side says, let them go free unless they hurt
> someone. My compassionate side, however, (and I do have one) feels sorry
> for them because I believe that they might get better treatment in a
> facility that would help them manage medications, get them clean, help them
> have clean clothes and healthy food.
>   So it's a serious conflict between caring for people (which I support,
> ESPECIALLY when it is a private organization caring for the people rather
> than the government) and letting people have the maximum freedom they can
> possibly enjoy.
>   In the end, I agree with you. We should be judged by how we treat these
> people. But providing care to those who want it and forcing care on someone
> who just wants to be left alone are two very different things. It does get
> complicated when the person suffers from a paranoia. If I were homeless,
> for example, I might not want ANY kind of government help. It would be too
> easy for me to slip into that kind of paranoia. I'd probably walk to some
> place warm and just do my best on my own. I'm not terribly mentally ill. ;-)

If you developed a mental illness which would cause you to suffer
frightening delusions and hallucinations which would lead you to become
destitute and homeless, and there was a treatment for this which would
return you to your normal self but which, in your psychotic state, you
would refuse, would you want to be treated against your will?

Stathis Papaioannou
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