[ExI] Basic Income - Basic Housing?

William Flynn Wallace foozler83 at gmail.com
Tue Apr 8 15:07:23 UTC 2014

The big problem in all of this are the paranoids.  If they are
schizophrenic too and strongly so, no problem. But even they are quite
capable of seeming logical and sane most of the time.  They are going to
talk a judge out of involuntary commitment in a second.  I have seen a
person in a mental institution fool a whole staff of psychiatrists, who
diagnosed him normal (I caught him).  The borderline cases, which is most
of the killers we see on the news, being paranoid but not schizophrenic,
are much more likely to avoid detection.  Furthermore, there is no
treatment at all for them. billw

On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 8:32 AM, Mike Dougherty <msd001 at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 8:35 AM, Kelly Anderson <kellycoinguy at gmail.com>wrote:
>> On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 12:56 AM, Stathis Papaioannou <stathisp at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>   In the end, I agree with you. We should be judged by how we treat
>>>> these people. But providing care to those who want it and forcing care on
>>>> someone who just wants to be left alone are two very different things. It
>>>> does get complicated when the person suffers from a paranoia. If I were
>>>> homeless, for example, I might not want ANY kind of government help. It
>>>> would be too easy for me to slip into that kind of paranoia. I'd probably
>>>> walk to some place warm and just do my best on my own. I'm not terribly
>>>> mentally ill. ;-)
>>> If you developed a mental illness which would cause you to suffer
>>> frightening delusions and hallucinations which would lead you to become
>>> destitute and homeless, and there was a treatment for this which would
>>> return you to your normal self but which, in your psychotic state, you
>>> would refuse, would you want to be treated against your will?
>> The short answer, and this is a tautology logically based upon your
>> question, is no.
>> Unless you are asking the me now, the sane me, if I would want to be
>> treated in the future, the insane me. In that case, the personal answer is
>> "I don't know." I suppose that is what a medical power of attorney is for.
>> If my trusted partner thought I should be treated against my will, then she
>> should be able to. If I can convince her at the time not to treat me, then
>> she wouldn't. Is that a cop out?
> I don't think it's a cop-out.  It's a difficult problem.  What if your
> proxy is similarly ... "off"?  (Or at least close-enough to your delusion
> to be convinced not to treat you.)  What if I want you 'adjusted' and I
> have proxy for your proxy?  Can I medicate her until she sees _my_ point
> about you?
> Is the government everyone's proxy by default?  Yeah you know where I'm
> going because we're both already the same kind of paranoid.
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